Episode 248 – Unstoppable Noteworthy Woman with Dr. Alessandra Wall

Unstoppable Mindset

Dr. Alessandra Wal spent her first seven years of life living in the Middle East. She then spent ten years in France. All of these experiences gave her a rich view of different peoples and cultures which still serve her well today. At the age of 18, she came to the United States where she attended undergraduate school at Duke University. She will tell us how “different” life was for her in a major college sports town, at least different from the kind of environments she had experienced up to that time. She attended graduate school at the University of Texas Medical center in Dallas where she eventually earned her PHD in Psychology. From an early age she loved to read, learn about people and wanted to understand them. For her, Psychology was the natural route to take. Fairly recently Dr. Wal decided to shift from being a practicing psychologist to being a leadership coach for women. She has fascinating stories of the kinds of efforts her coaching practice has undertaken. She specializes in helping smart, ambitious executive women in male-dominated industries build wildly successful AND deeply fulfilling careers. When asked, she is quick to point out that men are very much a part of the equation. I leave it to Alessandra to explain and teach. Dr. Wal and I had a wonderful and natural conversation. I came away blessed for the opportunity to speak with her and to better understand how all of us need to work harder and better at communicating and supporting each other. About the Guest: Dr. Alessandra Wall made a major career switch from a busy psychologist to successful founder & high-impact executive coach at Noteworthy. She specializes in helping smart, ambitious executive women in male-dominated industries build wildly successful AND deeply fulfilling careers. Dr. Wall is on a mission to build a world where seeing women access the highest levels of leadership and success is so common, it’s no longer noteworthy. She's confident that she can move the needle for women both through her 1:1 work with women and through her training, consulting, and partnership with companies that understand and value the impact of women leaders. You can find out more and access free resources at noteworthyinc.co. When she’s not busy helping executive women balance ambition, corporate dynamics, and personal well-being you will find her curled up in an armchair with a good book and an a piping hot cup of coffee. Ways to connect with Dr.Alessandra: Website:Noteworthyinc.co LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dralessandrawall/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset we get to meet every so often and chat and we get to have a number of people come on the podcast to have interesting stories to tell. And it is no different today we get to talk with Dr. Alessandra Wall. And she is a psychologist. Am I saying that right? Yes. Yeah. Are you psychologists to the founder and CEO of noteworthy and we'll get to that. But Alessandra and do you go by Alessandra or anything else? Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 01:59 Now? Full name. I forgot, Alessandra. Oh, no, it is. Yep. Michael Hingson ** 02:02 Perfect. So welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:07 I am very glad to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson ** 02:10 Well, thank you for taking the time to be here. Well, let's start talking about maybe a little bit of the earlier Alessandra growing up and all that sort of stuff. That's always fun to do that. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:22 Who doesn't love waxing poetic about their childhood? There Michael Hingson ** 02:26 you go. So wax poetic as long and as much as you wish. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:29 Let's see. Most important things about my job most interesting things Michael Hingson ** 02:34 are unimportant either way. So Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:37 things you can't hear when I speak anymore. Although somebody the other day at the airport said I had an accent and I'm like an accent. I have an accent. I don't hear it. But if you say so, I grew up. I grew up in I was born in Iran, moved to Kuwait, moved to Saudi Arabia, moved from there to France, which is where my mom was born and raised, and lived there until I was 18. And I didn't move to the States until I was 18. My father is from Kansas. A lot less traveling for him. But apparently I still have an accent. But the person in the airport was adamant it was not a European accent. He said maybe Midwestern. And I'm like, there's really just no chance of that, based, at least geographically on where I've lived in the world. Michael Hingson ** 03:27 Interesting. Well, how long were you in Iran and Kuwait and the first Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 03:33 seven years of my life, my parents spend a total of 10 years in the Middle East, okay. I got to I got to spend the first seven years of my life and then move to France in what was at the time right outside of Paris, which is in one of the coldest winters they've ever had. That was a that was quite a shock making the move, but not not not too uncommon. We'd spent a few Christmases in Goodland, Kansas, and it snows a good deal there. Michael Hingson ** 04:02 Yeah. So what what are what were your parents doing in the Middle East? What was work or whatever I assume? Go? Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 04:10 For my dad. Yes, my mom didn't work put into in some of the places we live. But she my father was an engineer. Also all the things that engineer, engineer and electronics. So all the things that engineers and electronics do, or did at the time, this is the late 70s, early 80s in the Middle East and then just made interesting choices. He's a man who was very bold with his choices from life, given that he was born in 1928 in the Dust Bowl, and those weren't necessarily typical choices for his background. Michael Hingson ** 04:49 I had friends they've, he's passed away now. And my wife actually knew them first and introduced me but he worked for us. And they spent several years in the late 70s In Iran, and actually were there when the Shah was overthrown. And it was a major challenge to get her and their cats out. And then he got out as well. But they, they made it happen. But it was a definite tense time all the way around. It was Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 05:27 my father worked for us too, but not by the time he moved to Iran. And we left right before the Scheifele. Yeah, both my parents learned Farsi. I had siblings who spoke, my brother spoke four languages. By the time he was five from traveling, French and English, Italian because they were living in Rome before and my mom is a first generation French of Italian descent. And then Farsi, they all spoke Farsi. Michael Hingson ** 05:56 So what do you remember about living in the Middle East? And what was it like as a child kind of growing up there? Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 06:02 I have very fond memories. And I mean, for a variety of reasons. I remember I remember the kindness of people, and how welcoming most people were. I remember, I mean, depending on what years there were times where we lived in compounds, which with all expats and all foreigners, right. And those those experiences were fun, but very different, very Western. But I also remember sitting outside a house in Kuwait, with the neighbors right around Ramadan and watching them, you know, butcher chickens to cook I. I tell people in the states we don't think about late, but I when I hear the call to prayer, the Muslim call to prayer, I have very fond memories in the same way that when I hear church bells, and that was that was my recollection for moving in France, right is hearing church bells and doves on a regular basis. Like they, they're fond memories, like some people might, you know, have a smell that brings them back to childhood. And I had a brother who would wear navy blue corduroy pants in the desert, which is also very interesting to me. So it speaks you know, we talk about being adaptable. And it speaks to human adaptability. Michael Hingson ** 07:23 Yeah, it must have been wearing corduroy pants and so on, it must have been pretty hot over there. It Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 07:31 was pretty hot. I'm not strange one Strangely, I didn't I didn't start talking in Fahrenheit until I moved to the States. And then there's never got that bad, but my understanding is, so at least 40 degrees Celsius Celsius, if not more and humid, apparently very humid, certain times of years. But again, like for my brother, he was in the middle east from the time he was two or three until 13. He spent the full 10 years of his life there. So really, it's bouncing around from country to country bouncing around from culture to culture, will having to learn having to integrate having to getting not having to in this case, like getting this opportunity to develop richness in your practices from living in so many places and meeting so many different people. That for me, those are part of the reasons why all of that is so fond, and yeah, moved later on both to like my first friends in France where they were mixes right there were like my best friend was his mom was British and his dad was French. And then my other best friend her. She her parents were on the dad's side he was a first generation French of Italian. Parents mom was all French but same thing in college when I moved my first friends were all people who had multicultural backgrounds because there was an ease of fitting in. Michael Hingson ** 09:01 It certainly must seem a lot different. Now over there, as opposed to what it was when you were living there. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 09:10 I am told it is very different. I know that for the Middle East, my for Iran, specifically my mother, my mother loved it. She loved she loved the language. She loved the culture. had wanted to go back but every time we spoken to people who who stayed or who let who had to leave and who came back. They talked about how jarring the differences. As for the Middle East. I am still looking for opportunities. I'm crossing my fingers for opportunities actually to go speak in the Middle East. So if anybody's listening and he's a speaker, I'm just gonna throw that out there. They keep on telling my mom the second I get an opportunity. I'll invite her to come with me. I Michael Hingson ** 09:54 spend time this past August August 2023 I add excessively in Tel Aviv, this first time I'd been to Israel. And we also then went to Jerusalem. So we went through the West Bank and into Jerusalem. I very much enjoyed it. It is so sad as to what's occurring there now. And it's the usual thing that so often politicians and others just don't tend to listen to others. And it certainly makes it a lot more difficult to try to create some sort of meaningful and peaceful relationships, doesn't it? Definitely. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 10:32 Right. I mean, that's the challenge of leadership, ultimately, actually, can you? Can you rise to a position where you have the privilege, and therefore the responsibility of leading well, and still stay in touch with the people you're supposed to be? Leading, I was thinking about the word the other day, actually, just this weekend talking to my husband about a civil servant, which is, which is ultimately, what politicians are supposed to be their civil servants. Hello, hello, 11:06 people. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 11:10 And whether it's politics, or the corporate world, they just think that it's very easy to forget that. To quote Uncle Ben, in Spider Man, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. Michael Hingson ** 11:26 It is very true. And the and the problem is it's so easy to and we seem to easily forget all of that. And we forget that leaders really are supposed to be servants. They're supposed to guide and they're supposed to help people vision and make the vision happen but not dictate. And that's just not what goes on isn't? Nope, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 11:50 not anymore. Well, realistically, I say not anymore. I think not mostly many points in history where that wasn't the case, either. We had a brief period where things look that way. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 12:05 So when you came to the US, at 18, that must have been a major culture shock compared to what you had experienced in Europe in the Middle East. It Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 12:18 was I wasn't expecting it. My father, as I said, was actually born in Nebraska, I grew up in Kansas, we would come back to the States to visit my cousins and aunts and uncles who had, for the most part, migrated to California and Los Angeles and like the golden age of Los Angeles. So my assumption was that I would walk in and I would fit in because in France, I was, you know, here's my friend, she's American. Right? That's that's how I was introduced very often. But coming to the states, it was there was a massive culture shock and one that I don't think a lot of people realize, because if people look at me, I, I look the part of you know, white, I'm white, I speak with no accent I do sometimes, especially when I get tired to say weird things because my brain literally translates from one language to another. So I when he would come here, and I would say to offer a gift, because in French you offer gifts, give a gift. And I use some British expressions, such as to q where a booth or to talk about the trunk of a car. They, I as my mom would point out to me, I articulated far more before I moved to the States and was easier to understand, apparently, but the big thing was just habits I remember, you know, there going I went to Duke University for undergraduate and I remember being handed a a leaflet about things that that were okay to discuss in America and things that weren't okay to discuss, or the notion of small talk and how important it is to the social interactions in the US. I remember being asked my very, very first night feeling very homesick and alone. If it's true that French people were really rude and they didn't shave and they smell bad. And my response to the young woman who asked me that question was, well, far less rude than you're being right now. The women wax and yeah, sometimes a second shower would work well. So getting in the habit of kind of figuring out simple things that make sense to people in America like in dorm room experiences. One thing that makes sense in America is you leave your dorm room open. And so as people walk down the hallway, they might walk in pop their head I didn't understand those things. I close my it was my bedroom door I closed bid, which also meant that I was harder to make friends, because they didn't understand the social patterns. Interestingly enough, nowadays and the work I do I spend a lot of time teaching people how to build relationships, make connections relate to other people in the in the American culture, and sometimes I get to work with with people who are working for large American corporations or have moved to branches of their corporations in the US and are really struggling with that disconnect between the way things are done in their cultures or their enter their country and the way things are done here. Michael Hingson ** 15:39 Well, when you went to Duke, did you learn to play basketball? Because that's a rule in North Carolina, of course, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 15:45 well, here's the thing, I had no idea what Duke basketball was about. None. I didn't get why it was a big deal. I also remember walking around and telling my Mother, why are these people walking around wearing shirts and baseball caps that say, Duke we know you're here, like, it's good. You're okay. Like, all those things that seem so again, commonplace things we do not think about because they're part of our lived experience. To me, were so awkward. So now I did not learn how to play basketball. I too, went to the UNC campus. I think on my second weekend, totally made friends with a bunch of Tar Heels. They broke all the rules. There was a massive failure in some ways. Michael Hingson ** 16:30 There is relevance in communicating, though I've went to speak in North Carolina. And I will also say if anybody needs a speaker, I'd love to talk with you about speaking. Having been in the World Trade Center, and all the things that I've done, it's it's fun. And I'd love to travel abroad again, as well. But I went to Carolina to North Carolina to do a speech several years ago. And Duke, UNC and NC State were all poised to make it into March Madness, except that NC State and UNC had a game of the Thursday night I arrived. And I expected just to be able to watch some television and turn on the TV only to hear the announcer say shows are not going to be on tonight because of the game went okay. And I was in Kentucky when the Wildcats were actually not only in March Madness, but it was the final game. And they were one of the two teams in the final game. And I was doing a speech somewhere and was told, we have to end this entire event at 630. If you go beyond by one minute you will speaking to an empty gym. And we ended it on time. And sure enough, by 631, there were only about two or three people in the gym. And one of them was me and the other person was the person who was going to take me back to my hotel. Amazing. It is Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 18:00 really really you know, if we bring it back to like this larger concept that for people who don't, maybe listening who don't get it or understand it, it really comes down to when you walk into a space, do you understand what the people around you are about? What's important to them? Like what defines that our culture? And can you adapt to it? And I could absolutely and totally see what you're talking about happening. Like there's going to be nobody here. Michael Hingson ** 18:30 And there wasn't, it was, I have never seen a gym clear out like that. And it wasn't even an emergency. But they were they were all gone. But it is interesting that as you point out and around this country, there are a lot of different cultures living in and I've been in Massachusetts and live there for three years, and I've lived in other places as well in New Jersey. And the cultures are so different in a lot of ways than here in California. And at the same time, unless you experience a number of those different cultures, you don't tend to get a flavor for or get some sort of depth of knowledge to be able to understand how to adapt. I, for example, met a person in New Jersey, who lived within 20 miles of New York City. This was a grown woman in her 50s and had never been to New York City. She had never really been out of Springfield, New Jersey and then the surrounding areas but it never been to New York City just wasn't even a priority to travel 20 miles Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 19:39 that that I cannot that does not compute for me. I mean, I know people like that I've very good friends in San Diego who have been born and raised here and we talked about the love for travel that like if they travel they traveled to go see friends in Oregon. And that's about it and there's no curiosity and Don't judge them for that it just does not compute. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 20:02 it's not, it's not a judgment issue at all. Whereas my wife, who was married to me for 40 years, she passed away last year, which is sad. But I've got 40 years of marriage, and I know she's monitoring. So if I'm ever not a good kid, I'm going to hear about it. So it works out. But the thing is that she had no fear of driving, when we were in New Jersey, into New York, and she drove all around California, when, when we needed to go and do different things, and all that and, and loved to see different places. And so I always grew up with that kind of attitude. And so it helped me when I went to different places, and went to places like West Virginia and an experience the foods that they have there, which are significantly different than in California. And just all the different things. It's I think, important that we find ways to broaden our horizons and at least learn to respect those and those environments that are different than ours. I Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 21:07 agree that I mean, on so many levels, right, to go back to some of the things we're talking about. I was reading articles this week about the risk of loss of the ability for people to have civil discourse, and a reading call about that very specifically in the workplace, that it's this huge potential risk for workplace initiatives for innovation for companies to be able to work together also for companies to be able to access like a broad spectrum of talent, because if people now only start working in companies where there's a one to one alignment on culture and values, and then then we lose, we lose that diversity of that creation. So the it's a, it's a big kind of space that people need to start thinking about in 2021. But part of what it takes to be able to move the way I did as a child or even in the state, so I moved to North Carolina, very different from Paris, France, in so many ways, but took the time to travel up and down the coast many times then left North Carolina moved to Texas to Dallas for graduate school. And as I was reminded day three in Texas when I asked for a sweet tea, I was like they told me Honey, this is not the South is the southwest. I'm like, okay, very different set of cultural norms, very different set of habits. For people who aren't, who haven't lived in both of those places. They might just put lump everything together in Boston. I've spent enough time in New York City I've been now in Southern California moving to Southern California. I don't know how things are in Victorville. But in San Diego, there's this thing that I later learned was called the SoCal flake. Buddy moving to Southern California. So let's take LA County all the way south, if you have plans with somebody, and they cancel on you about 10 minutes before your due to me because they're tired, and they just decide they'd stay home. It's not you. It's them. Yeah, but that is a typical, that is a typical culturally acceptable thing to do here. And I would, first of all, when I moved, I found it very difficult. But when I was still practicing, as a psychologist, and I would talk to people who moved here and felt very isolated very alone, I often brought that up and the sense of relief, they just didn't understand why it was so difficult to meet people why people were so inconsistent or flaky, thus the name so Catholic, and to just explain like that is just that you, your plans need to always be very agile and ready to switch. You know, this is these are just habits. So that ability to adapt, and the ability to have distress tolerance. Right, which is really what we're supposed to learn when we're toddlers distress tolerance. Yeah. becomes essential. Michael Hingson ** 23:59 My inlaws spent most well a significant amount of their lives in California. My father in law was born in Canada, but moved here fairly young, my mother in law grew up in Arizona, but they really spent most of their time from maybe late 20s on in California. So they also went the other way. They would decide on a Saturday or a Sunday or whatever, let's have a party and they had a whole bunch of people who were friends, what they call the instant party group, and all they had to do is call and everybody show up. Love it. No plans just showed up. And people would bring things or not, and it didn't matter. But yeah, but the whole, the whole environment is definitely different than the structured environment of, say the east coast, where things are expected to be a certain way and That's just the way it is. And it's okay. But we need to learn to tolerate it and understand it. And as you pointed out this whole concept of social discourse and in the workplace and elsewhere, we're losing the art of conversing. Because there are so many people who don't necessarily think the way we do. And unfortunately, there are some people who have led so many people down that path of saying, Well, if you don't think the way I do, then you can't be good. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 25:33 It's, you know, my opinion is that there's a tendency to take a lot of it very personally, that if somebody doesn't agree with you on something, that it's that it's personal, it's about you, and it isn't. And a lot of the work, a lot of I do a lot of work around, mastering difficult conversations, I work with people in high stakes situations, right. So they're, they're often big personalities. And because I work with women, sometimes they know how to stand and tall and big in front of those personalities. And other times, it feels very unfamiliar to counterculture. And a lot of it is learning how to calm yourself down how to recognize what you are thinking, recognize what you what's triggering you. And making sense of whether the things that are triggering you pertain to the situation that's in front of you, or it's like your own history, it's your own baggage. That's where there's a massive crossover between what I used to do as a clinical psychologist, and then the work I do now, Michael Hingson ** 26:41 one of the one of the things that people just don't do nearly enough, though, is to end in an in a nice way, in a curious way, ask questions, we are afraid. And I think we're taught that, you know, I see it all the time is I am somewhere and a child will want to know about my dog and they'll say to their parents, I want to go pet the dog or they'll compensate something to me in the parents will go don't talk to that man, he may not want to talk to you don't talk to that dog, it might bite. And I will stop no matter what I'm doing when some of that happens. especially dealing with the dog. And I'll take the dogs harness off and say absolutely, the dog won't bite come on over and visit. And the reality is the dog loves it even more than the child no matter what child it is, because they love the chance to take a break and get attention. But people are just taught how not to ask questions and how not to be curious. Which is so sad. Yeah, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 27:42 because they don't get practice on how to frame a question. And I understand the the impulse of the parents, I think a lot of time the impulse is we don't want to make somebody feel different or feel bad. Certainly having done a lot of work in di there's that idea of you're you think you're the first person to ask the question. That's the 20th time this person has had to feel this question that day. The same time? If if the questions are never asked if the answers are never given, then things don't nothing gets normalized. Then people stand out as outliers because I have to stare at them and try to make a story in my head. Now I'm staring at somebody instead of asking them living in living in San Diego, we have a lot of wounded warriors, right. I would always tell my kids, when they would ask what do you think happened to that person's legs or their arms or whatever? I said, Listen, if you really, really, really want to know, you can respectfully ask them, Would it be okay? If I asked you a question? And they're not idiots? They know exactly what the question is, pertaining to. And then they have the right to say, No, I'm tired. I'm sorry, I'm busy, whatever blow you off, or you can simply ask. But what I don't want you doing is that like whispering pointing can sound like either you're truly curious asking with children, you get away with that a lot more, especially if they're cute and polite. Or you're not curious enough to ask in which case, then walk on by and go on and go, like live your life and do your day. But don't sit and stare at somebody and like whisper behind their back that's humanly evolutionarily, that's an incredibly uncomfortable position to be placed in as a human. Michael Hingson ** 29:23 The media is what the media is, but I have to say, for me, and I've said it before on this podcast, after September 11, I made the choice to allow the media to come and interview me and I've been literally brought before cameras and had hundreds of interviews and I've been asked the dumbest questions in the world up to the most intelligent and smartest questions in the world. And I will not say even today, there is not a question that hasn't been asked because every so often, I'm surprised Somebody will come up with a new question that that makes me think. But I made the choice to do that. And it has been such a blessing to have all of that because it actually was great therapy for me because it made me talk about September 11. And all that was involved with that. But at the same time, it was a way to really get into discussions, and then learn how to frame responses. And the more times people wanted to interview me, the more I had to learn to deal with it, and did learn to deal with it to the point where it got to No, I wouldn't say be automatic to answer questions. But I was always open to answering questions, because the other part about it for me was being blind and different than 99.95% of the population. I figured that I needed to be a teacher. So I very rarely would refuse to answer a question. Because if I didn't, the odds are they wouldn't get the question answered. And usually, questions came as I understood them from misconceptions about what blind people could and couldn't do. And what I say wasn't what I say wasn't. So it was important to answer questions, and I really enjoyed and enjoy doing it. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 31:26 So I'm really curious, I have two questions for you. Do you? Yeah. If you feel free not to answer them if you don't want to. So I'll give them both. And you can answer them both, or in any order. So one of the questions is I have to ask, I mean, you said, I've been asked some of the stupidest questions. So I'm really curious what the stupidest question you've ever been asked is. And then the other question I have, because again, this is something I've worked on myself. This is something I've worked with other people, it's, there's an art to being able to answer things on the fly or process information on the fly, especially high stress or demanding environments. And so I'm wondering if you have any tips on how to do that? Michael Hingson ** 32:12 Well, I'll answer that one first, just because you asked it. Second, we're talking about it. It's just practice. For me, a lot of times I had to when people asked questions in interviews, sometimes had to stop and think about how to answer and what to answer, because I hadn't been asked a particular question before, but the more I practiced at it, and the more I answered, the easier it became to think of doing things on the fly. And I'll and I'll tell you another on the fly story in a moment. But to go back to your first question. So the reason that I got very exposed in the media was that Guide Dogs for the Blind after a while on the 12th. I called and told them what had happened, Guide Dogs for the Blind up in Santa fell, because that's where I've gotten all of my guide dogs. And some of the people from there had visited me in the World Trade Center. So my wife reminded me that somebody was going to remember that at some point, so I called and anyway, they put out a story. And it was clear what happened, right? I was in the World Trade Center, I got out I worked in the World Trade Center was reported, I was the Mid Atlantic region sales manager for a computer company, a fortune 500 company and other things. You can't imagine the number of times that people would still say to me, what were you doing in the World Trade Center anyway? Hello, don't you read? And, and of course, the other thing was, they would say, Well, did you know what happened? And I said, No, not until later. Well, of course you didn't you couldn't see it. And so Mike, stock response to that is the last time I checked, Superman and X ray vision, were fiction. And the reality is, I was on the south side of Tower One, when it was struck. On the north side. 18 floors above be no one going down the stairs where I was had any clue what happened, eyesight had nothing to do with it. Yeah. And it is so difficult to get people to recognize that because they really don't understand that disability is not a lack of ability. And I know you mentioned Dei, earlier, but if you ask the average expert in diversity and so on about what diversity means they'll talk to you about race, gender, sexual orientation, so on and will not mention disabilities, which is so unfortunate. We're not part of the conversation. And that just bleeds over into almost everything. But the fact of the matter is, is I love to tell people, sighted people have disabilities to your biggest disability is your light dependent, and you can't do a lick if suddenly the power goes out. you'll lose all your lights until you can find a light source. Thomas Edison fix that for you guys originally, but the reality is that light dependence is just as much a disability as light independence. The only difference is that we are so technologically advanced in terms of providing light sources, that your disability gets covered up so often because you can turn on us flashlight or a smartphone or we have lights everywhere, it doesn't change the fact that the disability is there. And, and I don't mean any of that in a sarcastic or negative way. But I'm using that tool to try to start to get people to understand that disability isn't what you think it is, of course, some diversity. People say, Well, disability doesn't mean a lack of belief, because it starts with this. And I say, yeah, and tell me what it is about the word discrete, that makes it negative. You know, there's a dis indiscreet. Tell me about that, you know, and they can't, because the reality is that it has nothing to do with this disability is a characteristic. And it manifests itself in so many different ways. And very frankly, I've learned a lot of that by articulating it on various episodes of unstoppable mindset. So some people are probably getting bored with me saying it all the time. But it is still true, that we need to recognize that everyone has differences. It doesn't make any of us less than anyone else. Think Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 36:27 about this, you You're right, the majority of conversations that take place around D I have to do with race and gender. Let's just start there. Right. The majority of my conversations have to do with those, those two things are the intersection of those two things. And there's a lot of conversation that is starting to take place around like neurocognitive since right and when I when I talk with people who for example have pretty bad ADHD often present it like it's just really bad thing I'm like hold on because there's somebody who has a DD ADHD what I will say is, is it a disadvantage when I have to remember numbers absolutely terrible person cannot argue with my husband and win an argument the man can watch a movie quote the whole movie. Remember? Literally he will. He will say you remember we met at college, they'll say you remember that night we were playing spades. And so you played this card this person played and he'll go through the whole thing. Like everybody's hands on like, no, yeah, what was on TV and was I eating pickles like that might help me place the night who was there? Right? I'm a good person. I remember like broad strokes themes. But where it becomes an incredible advantage is and coming up with solutions. Because the brain constantly like I call it. I said, I say you know, it's the star blasts like a thought comes and you have 10 Other thoughts that spring from it. And then 10 others in 10 others and 10 others. If you can rein that in. If you can gain some control over that. It's a huge advantage. You talked about sidedness right and, and the advantage of being able to work in spaces with low light is somebody who's entering middle age or who's fully middle aged and whose eyesight went from perfect. To me wondering why people ever thought that six point font was a reasonable font, for any kind of label, and being very dependent suddenly on readers, especially in low light, right, looking at having to figure out the world in different ways becomes interestingly challenging. So there is this advantage. It's about looking at and this growth mindset, among other things, right. It's about being able to look at where where's there an opportunity here, as opposed to just thinking different equals bad? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 38:54 It is, it is something that we need to do and it can I submit, it still all goes back to curiosity, the more curious we are, and the more curious we allow ourselves to be, the more we will open ourselves to being able to learn and it is just the thing that we're not taught to do from an early age. So when you went to Duke, what did you major in psychology? Michael Hingson ** 39:21 Of course you did. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 39:22 I started off I so I was an avid reader of as Pat Conroy, and ever read any Pat Conroy his stories are all about people being incredibly twisted and broken and in one way or another family dynamics. One of the books I read was The Prince of Tides. Now, I'm going to add to this contextual story. I was born because my older sister too at the time drowned and died. It was not planned. My mother neither my parents were not planning on having a kid actually. They would have been empowered. First of all, if not for the fact that my mother's an obstetrician told her when she went to get her tubes tied the year before, wait a year, and if in a year you still want this will do it. And in that year my sister died. So I came into a family with a lot of psychological trauma from all of that. So sometime in as a young teenager, I decided I want to be a psychologist. Right, that was the decision. I am going to be a psychologist and I had it all planned out what my career was going to be like. So I, I majored in psychology I specialize in as a child psychologist, I went directly to graduate school for clinical psychology specialize in child psychology. Where did you go? The University of Texas, Texas Medical Center in Dallas. It's a mouthful, but it is. And then came to came to here to San Diego because my husband got matched for residency with UCSD and same thing went directly got a postdoc, and as a child psychologist, open a practice as a child psychologist had my kids. And then I thought, who all the stuff that was fun about interacting with kids all day long, every day suddenly was not as much fun when I had to come back home and interact with his all day. So move to working with adults very specifically in anxiety, stress, what would be called burnout nowadays, yeah. Name back then. You perfectionism and, and then I did that for a few years and fell out of love with it. And then looked at what I did love about being a therapist, and the people I really enjoyed working with and fast forward a decade. I am where I am now. Michael Hingson ** 41:49 So how did you come up with the name noteworthy. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 41:53 My mission for my company for what I do professionally, was to build a world where women could access the highest levels of leadership and empower at such a regular level that it was no longer noteworthy. Right now is very noteworthy, right, we'll say so and so the first the second CEO, female CEO of Pepsi, the first whatever, we haven't had our first female president, I don't think we'll have one for a very long time, right, those those kinds of things. They just want to get to a place where we can do see so and so CEO of Yeah, president of Yeah. And when I rebuilt my website, I showed it to two friends who are part of my, my board of advisors, personal board of advisors, and I said maybe maybe I should come up with a new name. The company's name is life and focus coaching, right? Because that I started as a life coaching business was my first transition. And one said, why don't you do noteworthy? Just like it is in your mission? That is where you're trying to women right now. We're still very noteworthy. So that's, that's, that's the story. I just need to get some of my clients for, say not worthy. And I'm like, no, no, no, not not worthy. No, worthy. You are worthy. Michael Hingson ** 43:14 Yeah. So no, worthy certainly is, I think, a cool title. And I'm glad that you're doing it. So tell me a little bit more about exactly what you do. And why you do it. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 43:30 These days, I spend my time I'm really lucky. We just had a holiday dinner with my San Diego clients I have, I've worked with women all around the world. But because I'm San Diego base, I have a large contingency of current and former San Diego clients. And towards the end of dinner when most of them are gone. Because I cannot do a speech about something that moves me without tearing up and I'm like, I did still want to cry again. I looked down at the table, there were about five women left. And I said I just I just need you all to know that you are my dream come true. Right, which is true. I am very privileged to get to work with women who I genuinely believe are extraordinary. I do believe they're no worthy in their own right, whether they feel that way or not. And they tend to be by design for what I'm trying to achieve for them women who are executives, usually VP to the C suite. And these are women who have a track record of excellence. They're at the top of their game. But the cost, the price to pay, the effort that they've had to put forth in order to reach where they are in their careers tends, historically to have been much higher than their male counterparts. That's just the fact it's not a judgment. It's just a fact. And so when they show up in these situations, there are some habits that need to be broken. The habit of raising your hand to do all the things you can do versus positioning yourself to do what you do best and building your brand and your reputation around your top value. Knowing how to set boundaries without feeling guilty, the a lot of women I work with have fantastic titles, but they don't always feel or sometimes it's not about feeling it is the reality, they don't always have the authority that they need, with those titles to be able to lead very effectively or with impacts. That's, that's the work we do with these women and I, I get to leverage all the things I love about being a psychologist, so building trust, getting deep, understanding what what holds people back internally, and breaking down those barriers, plus all the behavioral, like everything I learned about being a psychologist working with children, and teaching parents how to parent effectively conditioned behavior, all of that gets applied to the these workplace interactions. So I do that with individual women. And then more and more, we're getting an opportunities to also work with companies and come into companies and either help them support and elevate individual women or build programs that will allow the woman that they have on staff to show up much more effectively to be really successful, which is great for the company and tends to drive retention. It is it is it is a dream come true. Because I'm one of the few privileged people that I know of who when she was really miserable with her job just got to rewrite kind of how she wanted to work and what she wanted to do. So that is that is what I do. Michael Hingson ** 46:43 So in working with women, and so on, where can or do men get involved in the equation at all, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 46:49 they get involved in a couple places, a lot of the work I do around actually I'm on a, I had a committee I co founded a committee is around male ally ship. So simply teaching, helping good men understand why the experience is different for women, and helping them understand how to position themselves actively. So that they can be the men they think they are when it comes to supporting folks, in this case, women but I but I often make the case I'm like whatever I'm talking about that has to do with gender, it has to do with anybody and everybody this is human dynamics. So men have this like really great opportunity to kind of take off blinders and see situations for what they are and intervene and a couple of capacities. One capacity is simply sometimes to call out things that they see that have been normalized. Because as women when we call them out, or label this hysterical or emotional or too sensitive, or bra burners, whatever, just you know, another great way for men to step in is by using sponsorship really sitting there and opening doors. That's literally what sponsorship is, it's what we all do. You know somebody you know, you like them, you know that they do a good job like you recommend them to other people. That's what sponsorship is all about. So being able to do that having conversations with other men about stuff, right these are these are this is where men can really play an incredibly powerful role. So I we run trainings for male allies, which are fun. i It's a five part training and we don't start talking to them about techniques until we talk to them about constantly talk to a bunch of women and get their perspective. And then we'll come back then they'll say I didn't realize like, I never thought about the fact that when I leave on a business trip, I just need to like, take one pair of shoes plus my comfortable tennis shoes and think about this, but she needs an extra 30 minutes to get ready because there's an expectation that she's going to look a certain way. We talk about roadblocks all the reason why men despite having the best of intentions, despite like morally really being like solid human beings might not take action. And again, these are human patterns. They don't just pertain to gender, but things like being afraid of screwing up. What if I say what if I'm trying to help and I say or do something that's wrong and I make things worse, or being afraid to step in and do something nice for somebody who doesn't want your help? And I'm my guess is that comes up a lot when we talk about ABLE like ableism right? People somebody who might try to open the door for somebody or help somebody or give their seat another person I don't need you to do this. I don't need your help. Right and so that's another fear and of course the third one is what if I stand up and speak up and because of that I lose my status that I get I get told them all these things too sensitive to whoa too. And and then I start losing opportunities and to men and Generally, I'll say, those are all good things to be afraid of, they will all happen. Like every single one of them, you will put your foot in your mouth, you will make a mistake and trying to do something helpful, you will screw it up, you will one day try to help somebody who's going to look at you and be pissed off that you tried to help them because they didn't need your help. And you will get called out by somebody somewhere and at the end of the day, you'll survive, like you will just be fine. It's uncomfortable. And that's just the price of showing up for people. It's uncomfortable sometimes. Michael Hingson ** 50:36 It gets back to what we talked about earlier. How much of that? And the answer is, I'm sure a lot how much of that is learned behavior? Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 50:46 I mean, I think most of it is learned. Yeah. I you know, and I actually will say this, I think most of the non action is learned behavior. If you ever watched a little kids, I mean, children, by definition are humans, by definition are egocentric, and children are like the, the the ultimate egocentric, like stage of human beings are completely focused on their world. And what's happening with kids are, we talked about this, like, relatively curious. When you teach them basic manners, it comes kind of naturally to them to open up doors to help to do things. We teach people to be afraid, we teach people to worry about making mistakes, we teach people to like stay in your lane, just stay in your lane, right. And then that gets carried like, to our adult selves and our adult behaviors. Michael Hingson ** 51:38 Yeah, and that's, of course, the issue, we, we don't learn to be more open, we don't learn to be more curious. And we don't learn to be willing to step out or step, step back, and then step out and explore. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 51:57 And the same things that I teach men, by the way, I teach women to do for other women, and I teach women to do for other people, period, I am very selective. And one thing about all my clients is, they have to be the kind of women who will lift while lift others while climbing, they cannot be women who are going to get to the top, and we're going to guard their place. And we're going to put other people through the same hazing through the same, like, hurdles that they face just because well, I had to. Mm hmm. So this is a skill set to teach. And he's just about being a good human. I really like ultimately, it's what it comes down to. Michael Hingson ** 52:40 What's the most important skill you think that a woman should learn as, as they're working in advancing and integrating in society, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 52:49 I will say that data shows that the most important skill a woman needs to learn for advancement is visibility, and how to build visibility. But what it comes down to, if we tap into like my, my experience, as a psychologist, what it comes down to is the ability to recognize and own what your true value is. Right. And that's such a gift. Once you do that for yourself as a as a woman in the workplace. First of all, yes, you can build visibility. So you can you can speak about what you bring to the table, you can articulate how that skill set can really drive impact in certain spaces, you can start building like your reputation as an expert, or your expertise in a field, like all of those things are really good. But the back end of that is also it's about owning it. It's about walking into the world and being clear about what you have to add to the conversation into the space. And to do that without false humility, or a sense of shame. And for a lot of women and a lot of girls, we're taught to not do that little girls from the time from the time they're in, like they're in sandboxes, I would say are taught to be collaborative and be helpful and share and give it to to their own detriment. So I've worked with women all around the world. And on every single continent, every single basic, general culture, larger culture, every woman tells me Well, in my culture, in my family, it's not acceptable to speak about myself, it's not acceptable to say I'm really good at this. It's not acceptable to say, well, you know, part of the reason we won that game, part of the reason we moved the needle forward on this project was because I was able to dot dot, dot. But if as women we learned to do this, not only will it benefit us, but it actually benefits the people we work with and for because by being very clear about what our top skills are and how best to leverage them, what we're actually communicating to people is how we can help them And the best way to help them. Michael Hingson ** 55:03 And the reality is sometimes to break in as being a part of a team is to really be willing to say not in an egotistical way, but to say, what skills you bring and why you're a valuable part of the team. Yep, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 55:17 I was just having a conversation with a client of mine, who's a returning client. And she recently got a promotion, which is why she came back. And she has she's suddenly working on we talked about, like, her team is all pros, meaning they're like the top of the top. And initially, she's like, well, I don't even know what I bring to the conversation. They're all so autonomous, in some degree need to go back to the basics. What is it that you do really well? How can that skill set support? You support them? And how can you position that and rethink about what your value is to this team and communicate it to them so that you can support them what she's done very well in six months. And she's just onboarding a new, a new team member. She said, What should I do to help him integrate better? And I said, ask him the same questions. What does he love doing that he's really good at? How does he? How does he want those skills? Leverage? Where can you make the greatest impact? How does that fit in your team communicate that we build? The sense of togetherness? Those Michael Hingson ** 56:16 kinds of questions will tell her more about the person she's talking with than most anything else she could do. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 56:24 And time and time again, it pays off. Michael Hingson ** 56:27 Of course it does. It has as it should. So is there a book in you? Have you written a book? Are you thinking about it? Yes, Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 56:34 I have co authored chapters in many books. There is a book in me, I want to write a book that will be called. Now you see me about this idea of visibility and everything that goes into it. I don't know when I'm going to have the time to do this isn't that every would be one of the author's excuse. If you talk to my very first coach who I hired in 2018. He would he would tell you all summer has been saying I've been telling her to write a book since 2018 24. I don't know No, Michael Hingson ** 57:08 you just have to decide that that's the priority and take the time to do it. That is true, then it will happen at the right time. If it matters enough, it will for matters to you or to whoever you'll you'll make it happen. Well, this has been fun. And I really have enjoyed doing it. I know you've got children to go pick up so I don't want to make you too late for that. So I want to thank you again for being with us and doing this episode with us. I appreciate it. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 57:38 And Michael, thank you. It's a delightful way to end the year. So I really, I have very, very much enjoyed our conversation. Michael Hingson ** 57:46 Well, this has been fun. We'll have to do another one. We don't even need to wait till you you have a book but I want to thank you. I want to thank you all for listening to us on unstoppable mindset please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. And please transmit your opinions, your views your thoughts Melisandre would like to know and I would love to know what you think so feel free to do that. If people want to reach out to you and possibly work with you or usually as a coach, how do they do that? Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 58:11 There are two way places to find me one is the website which is noteworthy inc.co So noteworthy i n c.co. And then the other one is LinkedIn. So I'm there under D at whatever Dr. Alessandra Wall, but those are best places to reach me Michael Hingson ** 58:30 and Alessandra A l e s s a n d r a Yep. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 58:34 And while is like the Pink Floyd album, W a l l, W Michael Hingson ** 58:38 L. Well, thanks again all of you for listening. I'd love to hear from you. Please email me email, email me at MichaelHi at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n i love to hear from you really appreciate your thoughts. And Alessandra, for you and for everyone listening if you know of anyone who might be a good podcast guest or you'd like to suggest anyone, please reach out. I'm always looking for folks. And since we've both mentioned it Alessandra and I are speakers, we are always looking for speaking opportunities. She wants to go to the Middle East, I'll go there, but I want to make sure it's a little bit more peaceful when I go but I'd love to speak so if anybody knows of any speaking opportunities, let us both know, right? Yep, please. Are we speaking? We appreciate it. So again, Alessandra, for you one more time. Thank you very much. This has been fun. Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 59:39 Thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Michael Hingson ** 59:48 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.