Episode 299 – Unstoppable Healing Journey Navigator with Kathy Harmon-Luber

Unstoppable Mindset

She has dedicated her life to her spiritual path, and learning the healing arts and mystical wisdom of many world cultures. She is a holistic energy healer: Reiki Master; Crystal energy healer (certified, International Practitioners of Holistic Medicine); Sound Therapy & Sound Healing practitioner (certified, Complementary Therapists Accredited Association); and shamanic practitioner. Kathy walks the path of an ancient lineage of women frame drummers. An award-winning artist, photographer, and poet, Kathy’s fine art photography can be found at her online gallery at KathyHarmonLuber.com, her shop at fineartamerica.com/profiles/kathy-harmon-luber/shop, and on Facebook at facebook.com/Kathy-Harmon-Luber-Suffering-to-Thriving-103160192354485.

Kathy’s compelling writing and marketing prowess have helped nonprofit organizations advocating the arts, education, and environment, as well as helping foster children and youth, helping homeless youth get off the streets, and empowering people with developmental disabilities.

She’s an articulate spokesperson, having appeared on CNN, in The New York Times, LA Times, The Washington Post, and more. She has taught at professional conferences, university, high school, and middle school levels. She earned her Graduate degree in Publishing from The George Washington University and BS in Marine Biology from University of NC, Wilmington. This time we get to visit with Kathy Harmon-Luber, a Sound Therapy & Sound Healing practitioner, Reiki Master. In her twenties Kathy was diagnosed with serious autoimmune diseases. Also, she was told that she had the spine of someone in their eighties. Kathy had grown up in Pennsylvania and then moved during her high school years to North Carolina. She will describe how she went to college and obtained a degree in Marine Biology, but after leaving college she went in a slightly different direction and began working for various nonprofit agencies including spending 12 years working for these organizations in Washington D.C. As Kathy describes, she slowly began looking for ways to help her conditions and learned about and started to work with sound healing. In a sense, much came to a head in 2016 when she experienced a worse than usual ruptured disk in her back and became bed ridden for five years. The unstoppable Kathy after coming to grips with her situation began to work on becoming aware of her own body and what it would need to heal. Clearly what she did worked as now, as she will tell us, walks two or more miles at a time. She still monitors her body, but that is the real crux of the issue; she is aware of her body and has learned what it needs to stay healthy. She reminds us that we all can be more aware of our physical and mental needs if we will but take the time to gain awareness and insights. At the end of our time Kathy tells us of a free gift for all. You can find this gift on her website, www.sufferingtothriving.com. About the Guest: Kathy is an inspiring, compassionate, and empowering author and wellness guide whose passion is helping people navigate the challenging terrain of the healing journey. With insight and enthusiasm, she opens people’s eyes to the potential of becoming more physically, emotionally, and spiritually healthy by offering a toolkit of practical solutions. Her book, “Suffering to Thriving: Your Toolkit for Navigating Your Healing Journey ~ How to Live a More Healthy, Peaceful, Joyful Life,” is full of wisdom gleaned from decades of healing from health crises.

Kathy went from suffering to thriving, reversing the progression of asthma, chronic bronchitis, and autoimmune disorders, and recovered (without surgery) from several debilitating, inoperable spinal diseases and disc ruptures which left her bed-ridden for five years. Kathy’s passion is helping others find their compass and chart a course for navigating illness, injury, and loss – learning how to not only cope, but to become more resilient, joyful, and thriving. Photo by Lynne Eodice Ways to connect with Gail: https://www.facebook.com/SufferingToThriving https://www.instagram.com/kathyluber/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathy-harmon-luber-4b38158/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, thanks for listening. Wherever you happen to be today you are listening to unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael hingson, and today we get to chat with Kathy Harmon Luber, who is a Reiki Master, a healer, and she comes by it very honestly. Why do I say that? Because for many years, like others I've had the opportunity to chat with on the podcast, she actually went through some very serious, debilitating and unhealthy issues. But also, like a number of people, as you will see, Cathy is very unstoppable. She went through it, and it is kind of helped shape what she does today and where she is in her life. And I'm going to leave it at that, because I think it'll be a whole lot more fun if you get to hear from her. So Kathy, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 02:16 Hi, Michael. I'm so happy to be here with you today. Michael Hingson ** 02:19 And the other thing about Kathy is we don't live all that far apart from each other, because I live in a town called Victorville, and she lives in Idlewild, and so we're, as I said, I could she's below us, although a little ways away, but I could probably, if I had a really good, strong arm and a well built paper airplane, I could throw a plane that would go into her window and land on her desk, but I think that's going to be a little tough to do under normal conditions, but you never know what'll happen. But I'm really glad that you're here with us. Why don't we start? If we could by you telling us a little bit about kind of the early Kathy growing up and so on. That's always a fun place to start. Yeah, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 02:59 always a good place to start. Thanks. You know, Michael, I grew up in Pennsylvania, even though we live in California now, I grew up in Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, in a lovely small town. Our our home was on a property that my dad planted quite a lot of trees. He was a forestry major, so he planted lots of trees. We had this beautiful wooded yard, and I spent a lot of time outdoors and with our with our dog, our colleague, Taffy, and exploring the woods and nature. And so nature has always been such a big part of my, life as a result of that early upbringing, but I was also very, very creative back then and now i i played piano. I got started really young. When I was when I was three years old, my mom started giving me piano lessons because I had just sat down beside her one day and started to play and wanted to play. Then I moved on to flute. So I've, my dad played a lot of classical music, and so I was, I was always very inspired with that, and I also did a lot of art. And so young Kathy was, was was very creative. And I've, I've carried that through my life. It's been something that's given me a lot of strength through adversity. And as I like to say, you know, we all need to find our medicine to get us through life and the challenges that we face and creativity is my medicine, along with nature, is my medicine as well. So yeah, it's a little bit about my early days. So Michael Hingson ** 04:44 you went to school and all those usual things that us kids did back in the day as it worked. I did. You went to college. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 04:52 I did. I went Michael Hingson ** 04:54 to college. Where did you go and what did you do? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 04:57 Okay, well, interesting. I. We moved when I was 14 from this idyllic life in Pennsylvania to North Carolina. My dad got a great job offer in Charlotte, and he moved our family there. So I went to high school there for a couple of years, and then I went to college. He wanted me to stay in state, and so I went to University of North Carolina at Wilmington on the coast. I majored in marine biology. My dad did not want me to major in the creative arts. He was adamant about it. He wanted me to be a business major. And, you know, I subsequently have had a lot of experience in in business, but I I also just had this, you know, this, this love for nature that was, that was kindled in my my childhood. We also took trips to the beach once we moved to North Carolina, and so I, I decided to be a marine biology major. You know, I was very inspired by Rachel Carson and her, her books and, and other writings and and so that is, is what I majored in, and loved it. I used to, you know, snorkel and scuba dive and all of that, and just found the ocean to be another home. Yeah, cool. Michael Hingson ** 06:17 So you went in and got a degree in marine biology, but what did you then do with it? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 06:24 Yeah, isn't that interesting? Yeah. So Michael Hingson ** 06:27 I, I know the feeling well. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 06:32 So I moved with my soon to be now ex husband to to Washington, DC, after college, and I just had the fire in the belly to to work with advocacy organizations that make the world a better place. And that's been my entire career, prior to to career change into sound healing, and the the other healing arts and Reiki and all of that, which we'll talk about. But, but, yeah, I I was very inspired by my grandfather, who, you know, he was one of those people who was always volunteering, always making a difference in the world. Believed that we could make a difference no matter what was going on in the world and in the power of every person to make that difference. And so I was really inspired by that. And so I went to work in nonprofit organizations, and I worked in environmental organizations. I worked with a couple of organizations that that worked at the grassroots level to empower environmental organizations to to, you know, fight a lot of the big battles with with corporate polluters and super fun sites and things of that nature. I went on to work with a lot of of different, varied nonprofit organizations over the years, including when, when I was in DC, the Smithsonian Norman Lear's People for the American Way, a constitutional rights organization. So, so I've had a lot of varied experience in in the nonprofit world, but it was working. You know, in environmental causes that really lit me up. And later, you know, moving to California as a consultant, I also work for environmental organizations. So it's, it's been a passion of mine, yeah, so it Michael Hingson ** 08:35 sounds though, like marine biology, in a sense, had a little bit of an influence. Did you find that there were ways and places where you were able to use some of that knowledge or some of the experience you gained along the way with marine biology? Yeah, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 08:49 for sure, within the environmental work that I did, I did fundraising and grant writing, and certainly the marine biology, you know, I took ecology classes and animal physiology classes and all kinds of things that weren't specifically marine biology related, but biology and nature related. So so that well rounded education has served me very, very well over the years. And I might also say that at the time that we moved to DC and I went to work in these environmental nonprofits, I really wanted to get an advanced degree in marine biology. There were hiring freezes in the government. They were doing a lot of the hiring of young Marine Biology majors. And so I kind of hit a roadblock there, which required me to pivot a little bit. And that's kind of been the story of my career. As I've gone through many different kinds of nonprofits. You know, as opportunities opened that that seemed interesting to me and and worthwhile causes, I have had these pivots into slight. The, you know, different fields and away from the marine biology, but it to the state, you know, I've still done, like, a lot of snorkeling, and put that information to use as well. So it's been both professionally as well as in my personal life. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 10:17 well, so you, you were in DC for how long? 12 years, wow. And then, what did you do? Then Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 10:26 I had a great opportunity. I I worked. The last job I had in in DC was working with the Democratic National Campaign Committee to to raise what was then, like a record breaking amount of money, and I was offered a job doing some some consulting in LA, and I, I, I really love DC. I have so many great memories and lots of friends still to this day, but I had the opportunity in working in DC to travel to California a lot, and I loved it here. And so when that job opportunity came, I decided to move to California. I've worked with a lot of different varied I got out of politics at that point and into other kinds of nonprofits that make the world a better place. And that includes, you know, the arts, Health and Human Services, helping traumatized children mental health issues. So quite a lot of of organizations that that help people. Yeah, so what did you Michael Hingson ** 11:44 What did your father think about you going into all this nonprofit work, even though he wanted you to get and you got your degree in marine biology, or did he approve? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 11:56 Uh, you know, he wasn't crazy about it, I have to say, because he didn't feel that that nonprofits are business, because people think, if you work for a nonprofit, there's no money, there's no profit, and in in the the strict sense of the word nonprofit, nonprofits cannot make profit that is then shared with board members and stakeholders and all of that. But you know, many nonprofit organizations raise millions upon millions of dollars to put into their work. It's just that they have a a mandate from the government to spend it on the programs, on the on the programmatic work. So he wasn't crazy about that, but by that point, he realized his daughter was going to do what she wanted to do in life, and I've never looked back. It has been deeply fulfilling, and I do feel like a lot of nonprofit organizations are real change makers in the world, right? And so, so so it's been deeply fulfilling to me at that level. And you know, the the fundraising part I kind of fell into when I was in DC, people took me under their wings and taught me how to fundraise and and I became development director and VP of development and advancement and all those things, and that's what powers the nonprofit work. So, so I always felt really good about that, yeah. Well, Michael Hingson ** 13:27 the reality is, of course, that people who really are committed to their nonprofit work into whatever nonprofit organization they are a part of will tell you that it's all about trying to make a difference in the world. It's all about trying to improve the world, whether they specifically are the ones to make a difference, they want to be part of the process that will make the world a better place. And they they do recognize there is money, but they also recognize that the more important thing are maybe the tangibles and possibly the intangibles that go along with making a real difference, right? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 14:11 Exactly? And it's such a wonderful opportunity to you know, in the in the fundraising part, you know, money comes from individuals, it comes from private foundations, and it also comes from corporate philanthropy. So it was an opportunity to work in partnership with corporations to also make good things happen. Yeah, did Michael Hingson ** 14:31 all of your work, both in marine biology and just the things that your your dad wanted you to do, in terms of business and so on. Did all of that experience and the terminology that you got to learn, did all that help you? Yes, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 14:47 absolutely. You know, it's been fascinating to me, Michael, how at every step along my career path, how I've been able to take what I've learned in Marie. In biology in and just, you know, nature studies in general as part of that, getting that degree, not strictly marine environment, but, but, but you know, the natural environment in general, and and everything I've learned in working in nonprofits and in fundraising and all of my varied interests, like even in the arts, I've worked as a as a development consultant with lots of arts organizations, so I've been able to sort of marry all of These what seem like disparate skills and bring them into almost every job I've well, not almost every job I've ever had. So that part has been fascinating to see how interconnected all of those things have been in making it a rich experience and making it a career. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 16:01 well, along the way, your life changed because of some some physical things that happened to you. Why tell us a little bit about that? Because I know that that leads to a lot of the choices that you've made since, and a lot of the things that you've learned Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 16:15 absolutely, you know, I think it's like so many of us in life, disruptions can happen in our lives that set us on a different course or or maybe just we course correct a little bit, or maybe it's dramatic, and in my life, it's been just a little bit of both. I when I was in my 20s, I was diagnosed with autoimmune diseases and severe hereditary spinal diseases. I was always really interested in pursuing complementary medicine, right along with Western medicine, both have helped me enormously, and I was doing just great. I had doctors when I was in my 20s tell me I had the spine of an 80 year old at that point, and that I also would probably end up in a wheelchair by my mid 30s. And I'm thrilled to say that, that I am, that I am not currently, and I'm I'm many 17:12 decades older. I was gonna say you're a lot older than in your 30s. Yes, I am. And so Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 17:17 I've been able to to, to really find a healing path that has helped me to really thrive physically. So that was one part of it, but then I was doing just great. You know, I had had some minor setbacks over the years, especially with my spine disc ruptures and things of that nature that would take, you know, two or three months of being down for the count, and then I'm back, you know, strong and right back at my very, very active life. I've always been, you know, I when I was younger, I was a runner. I've always been a hiker. I love to swim, like, like, an hour at a time, at the at the pool, you know, not just playful swimming, but but serious swimming. And, you know, I played a lot of high impact sports and things, from basketball when I was young to tennis and volleyball and all the things so super active life, and I managed until 2016 when I had, I had gone to visit a client. It was an overnight trip, and it involved several hours in a car each way, and all year long. In 2016 it was a very, very big year. We had had, I had, you know, traveled internationally, my husband and I did a drive all the way up the coast to from Southern California to Oregon. You know, I was serving on three boards of directors. Yes, I was still working more than full time. I had quite a lot going on in my life, and I was getting these subtle, intuitive hits that I really needed to rest my back more. It was very, very painful. And I, I, I practice good self care, you know, I'd rest for a while, and then I'd be right back to my really busy life, right? So the day after this, this trip to the client, I was very excited. I'm standing in the kitchen, telling my husband, as the coffee is brewing, all about the trip, and I get this extraordinarily severe like I've had never had before in my back to the point that I barely made it to the bedroom without falling he had to help me, and I'd had ruptured discs before. This was really different in terms of the intensity of the pain. If the others were a 10, this was like a 20, and I could not move. Once I got laying down flat on my back in bed, I could not move at all, like without just incredible searing pain. And I thought, well. Well, here we are. It's going to take another couple months, maybe three, for this to, you know, resolve. I know I have to really be down for the count now and really rest and you know. So I started just making changes, you know, I knew I had to resign some boards temporarily, I thought. And I talked with doctors and all of that. And come to, you know, fast forward, I was bedridden like that for five years, five years. I wasn't prepared for that, you know, I really thought it was going to be a more or less speedy recovery and and it wasn't like other recoveries, where I could even prop myself up in bed and work from my laptop. I was completely down for the count. Um, it was inoperable. Doctors said it could take anywhere from six months to three years to heal. Maybe you'll be better, and maybe you won't. So I went through that those moments of it may be always like this. It may not get better. I mean, one, one neurosurgeon said you, you may not be able to ever really walk much again. And in the early years of that, I couldn't walk to the bedroom door. So, you know, it was, it was that was depressing. It was, you know, you go down the downward spiral of feelings like and asking all the wrong questions. You know, I was in that place of asking, Why me? Why did this happen to me. You know? What? What Will it always be this way? What if it's never better? What if? What if I am completely reliant on my husband and friends for the rest of my life? You go to that place. It's human nature. And we can't beat ourselves up when these kinds of things happen, and we we tend to, you know, either blame ourselves or go down the dark rabbit hole. But the important thing, as you have talked about so much, and that you and I both know, is that when great challenges happen in our lives, just like when they don't, but magnified when they do. Every moment is a choice. And I realized one day that, you know, I could prop my laptop on my stomach and look for inspiring quotes. And one day I got up, woke up, and I thought, that's what I'm going to do this morning. I'm in a bad place. I started looking for inspiring quotes of people who went through bad stuff, who got through it. And I realized in that moment, it was like a lightning bolt. Every moment I have a choice, I could I could go and just forever live in that dark place, or I can try to find hope and a new purpose in my life. I could choose to be a bitter old, unhappy woman one day. Or I could take a different path, and I start thinking, Well, how would I take that different path? Here I am lying in bed. I can't do anything for myself. What can I do? I began looking at it from the standpoint of not disability, but ability. What is my ability? What can I do? And I actually, with my computer, made a list of everything I couldn't do right? I couldn't I couldn't go for walks. I couldn't swim. I couldn't walk to the kitchen at that point, you know, like I said, I couldn't even get to the bedroom door. I could no longer ride horses, which, which was something I love to do. I, up until that point, had been playing classical flute in our town at least once or twice a weekend. Professionally, I could not even lift up my flute because it twisted my back in a way that was just completely unbearable. So in one column, I made that list of everything, and I said, you know, I can't be on boards of directors anymore, because at that point, you know, that was 2016 2017 we weren't using zoom and other platforms to connect virtually, as we began to do during the pandemic. And so So I made a list of the things that had to go What did I have to completely get rid of? I resigned boards. I cut back on client writing work. And then I looked at all the things I love to do, my flute playing, my art, my photography, and I said, All right, what is a work around here? I can't I can't ride horses. I can sketch horses. I love to sketch. So maybe I'll just lean into that. Something I never did before, that I wasn't sketching or painting horses. I couldn't stand at my easel, but I could. I could sketch. I couldn't play my classical flute. I could play my Native American flute because it didn't twist my spine. I had, you know, Tibetan and Crystal singing bowls, which, which I loved. I had gotten into sound healing years, decade, a couple of decades ago now, for anxiety and relaxation from stress, right? And, and I thought, well, there's something I can do. I'll have my husband bring those things to me, and I'll, I'll do those things. And, what I'm saying is I found new and different things that lit me up, that that gave me joy. And there's a very good reason for doing this first. First what got me to that point unbeknownst to the reason why it's important, which I'll get to in a second. But the what got me to that point, is asking the right questions instead of poor me. Why did this happen to me? It was what if this is an opportunity for me to turn inward more? I've always been a very spiritual person, not necessarily in a religious way, but, but, but spiritual. What if this is an opportunity for me to really lean into that? What if it's an opportunity for me to learn new things and get certified in sound healing and become a Reiki Master? Uh, what if it's an opportunity for me to find a new path in life. What if this is a portal to something new and different, a new and different life purpose? And when I was telling you about all the nonprofit work I did and still do that, I thought that was my ultimate life purpose and and because of of of this massive health challenge, on this healing journey, I've discovered there's more to it than that, sound, healing, energy, healing, um, all of that is, is part of my new Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 27:17 um, expanded Life Purpose, and what I the gifts that I bring to the world. So, so what I'm saying is, you know, when we look at it as our healing journey, as embedded in our life's journey, of course, if we live long enough, we're all going to face health challenges, be they physical, mental, emotional, even spiritual, right? So our healing journey embedded in our life's journey, embedded in our soul's journey, or what we came here to do in the world. And so healing journey becomes a portal. The reason why this is so important, I just finished Michael reading a really fabulous book by a doctor, Dr Jeffrey rediger, I believe his name is. It's called cured, and it is about the medical science behind people who have really rather miraculous feelings. They don't. They don't just the cancers don't go into remission, only they are cured of cancer. He's been following some of these people for decades, and he decided, from from the medical perspective, why do some people have amazing healings and others don't? And many of these people were given two months to live from their particular cancer or other diseases, and decades later, they're still alive and they're thriving. Why is that? And it seems the common denominator throughout his book is not owning the label of your disease as the be all and end all. In other words, I am not my spinal diseases. I am not my autoimmune diseases. I have a purpose in life, and then finding that purpose, living that purpose, living an intentional life that brings you great joy. He told the story of a woman who had two months to live from an extremely aggressive pancreatic cancer, one of the worst cancers, and she spent the weekend with her, with her girlfriends. They went to the beach. They all you know, gave her lots of love and encouragement for what she thought was the final couple of months of her life. Then she decided I am not my cancer, and I am going to just live every day of my life, however short it remains. I'm going to live it full of joy, full of passion. And full of love, and that's what she did. Fast forward over a decade, like close to 15 years later, she ends up in the hospital, same hospital that that, that you know, did all the the testing for the pancreatic cancer and she had appendicitis. She saw the doctors, and they looked at her chart and said, We didn't think you were alive, right? She was. She only had two months to live here. She is nearly 15 years later, alive, and then she began working with the doctor who wrote this book to even explore further why she's still alive. Turns out, living a life of purpose and full of love and support, following your passions is is for many people, what helps them to transcend and have these rather, rather amazing feelings. And so I have, I have been, I was doing that then without knowing that I only read the book a couple months ago. So it's a relatively new, new book out. I, I, I began just sort of following that, and now I'm leaning into it even more, as you can imagine, knowing that's kind of a recipe for thriving, right, Michael Hingson ** 31:23 right? And well, and I think it's, it's been known in some quarters for quite a while that your mental attitude and your perceptions can dramatically and can totally, I think, actually control how you are, how healthy you are, and so on. Disease is a is really dis ease, but it is as much, if not more, in most cases, mental, than anything else. That doesn't mean that some people aren't going to get a broken arm or something like that, or in your case, you had some very bad back problems. But it also doesn't mean that your mind doesn't have the ability to help you move beyond that, which is what you did Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 32:15 exactly. And you know, in my book, I I dedicate a lot of my book suffering to thriving, to this concept of suffering is a choice, unnecessary suffering. Okay, I'm not, I want to say right up front, I'm not talking about people who are in war torn countries or or in countries where there are terrible, you know, injustices to people. That's a different kind of suffering. I'm talking about the kind of suffering that is in our mind, that we perpetuate with our minds. Suffering is a choice. Unnecessary suffering is a choice. Thriving is a choice. And I write a lot about this in my book, about how we need to make our mind our medicine. And that's not false positivity. You know? It's about training your mind not to go down the negative rabbit hole of the terrible questions of perseverating about all the bad things that can happen. Because, look, life is complicated in our world, bad things happen every day. It's important to find a place within us, that place of stillness where we can live in the moment. And when we sit here like I'm sitting here right now with you, this is a beautiful moment. There are lots of terrible things going on in the world. There are lots of terrible things happening to our planet environmentally. And we can choose to find moments of peace in our lives, that peace, that stillness within that is healing and so, so harnessing the power of that in our lives, every day, every moment, is a choice. We can do something healing or not, and and you and I have talked about this before. You know the Buddhist nun Pema Chodron, who I'm a big fan of, because she is just so plain, speaking about the challenges of daily life. And you know, how do we how do we thrive through, through what's going on in our in our world, even she talks about every moment is a choice between fear versus love. What would fear decide? Fear? Fear goes down that rabbit hole and doesn't come out and just lives in that dark place and we feel sorry for ourselves. It's human to do that. It's human nature to do that in to some degree. But what would love do if we're being loving towards ourselves and the people we're in community with, right people in our lives who we love, I will decide Michael Hingson ** 34:50 right I would submit that fear isn't necessarily a rabbit hole that we have to go down. That is to say fear is in part physiological and in part mental. That's right, but, but fear is also something where, again, like with most things, we have the choice of how to deal with it. And you know, we've talked about my new book, and I've talked about it here on the podcast, live like a guide dog, which is all about discussing the idea of learning to control fear. Fear can be a very powerful tool in our arsenals. It doesn't necessarily need to be something that overwhelms us, or, as I put it blinds us. The reality is that fear is something that if we learn to use it properly, can make us more aware, more perceptive. It can help our visualizations, and that's what we need to deal with. You said it in a very interesting way a few moments ago, when you talked about living in the moment. The problem with fear is that what we usually learn on this earth, many of us anyway, is that we have to what if everything? What if this happens? Oh, my God, that's horrible. What if that happens? And as several people have written over the years, the problem with most all of our fears is they never come to pass, but we spend so much time dwelling on them that we don't look at what caused them, where they come from, and what good is it going to do for us to continue to dwell on things when all we're doing is making stuff up as we go, but rather to say, Okay, I'm aware of this, and when you go back and study it, ah, that's What caused me to think that way? Okay, I understand that now, and I'm aware of that, and I don't need to worry about that, because I recognize that's just a myth that I'm trying to create when I don't need to do it. Oh, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 37:16 I love that so much. Michael, that's exactly it. Exactly it. You know, fear, like you said, is it is a an important, an important feeling, because as human beings, you know, think of our, think of our long ago ancestors and and saber tooth tigers like you couldn't be curious about that big cat. You had to be fearful of it, or you could lose your life, right? The problem is today, we're not being chased by by crazy wild animals. Most of us, and we are, we're, we're, we're fearful of things that happen in everyday life, to the point that a lot of people just have this running emotion of fear all the time, what I have found, and I've read a lot about this, and I'm very excited to read your book and learn even more about it from you. I think it's really important to face our fears and to be curious about them. For example, you know, I would be very, very fearful about about certain things. And when I really sat down and faced them and said, What is behind this fear, and then what's behind that? Michael Hingson ** 38:29 Well, let's go back to the saber tooth. Let's go back to the saber tooth tiger a minute. Um, were we just afraid of the cat, or did we observe and learn and become respectful of it and gave it its space while it may not have cared about our space so much, but we we learned to recognize it and to respect it more than to fear it. Because the problem with fear as such when we let it run rampant, is that we lose our ability to put things in perspective. And I expect that those cave people realized I don't want to tangle with this cat, because now that doesn't mean that there wasn't a level of fear, but again, fear used in the right way leads to better awareness, better observation, being aware of when that cat's around, looking for it, learning more about how to recognize when the cat's there, so that you can avoid it, which doesn't mean that you're not afraid of it, in a sense, but more you're aware of it, and you learn to respect and deal with it. Yeah. On the other hand, I wonder if there are any cave people that ever got to make friends with the saber tooth tiger. You never know. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 39:48 We never know. Yeah, it could well be. But in regular, you know everyday life now, like often, we'll be afraid, and I can remember this very well in the first couple of years of being. Bedridden. I was afraid of my spine. I was afraid my spine was going to get worse. I was afraid that if I started walking, I might make it worse. And then I sat down one day and I thought, I can't live in fear of my own body. You know, our bodies are so wise. They everything pain, allergies, lives, anxiety, it all tells us something. It's a teacher. And so is fear. Like in the case of a saber tooth tiger, you know it's it teaches us something. So if we can approach fear from the perspective of, okay, why am I afraid of again years ago, walking for fear that my spine would collapse further. Why am i i turning this into a fear of my own body, and then I would be okay? Well, if it happens again, I'm afraid that I'm really going to be a burden on my family. And you go down, you know, that line of inquiry, okay, well, what's behind that, and what's behind that, and that, and, and is that a worthwhile fear to live your life? There you go. And I came to the point where it's like, uh, no, I have to take calculated risks. I'm not going to do anything crazy, but, but let's set small goals for myself and and sure enough, you know now I'm, I'm walking, I'm, I'm I'm able to walk. I'm able to walk a couple of miles, but it began with those baby steps that were full of fear. We have to face that and dig underneath it and and I like anything you know, when you confront it, it takes a lot of the scariness out of it. Actually, can just face the fear, right? Absolutely. Michael Hingson ** 41:50 What is it that eventually happened to you or because of you, that healed essentially, as much as possible that your spine so that you are able to walk and so on. Now, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 42:06 yeah, that's a great question. I would love to say it was one thing, but like most things in life, it wasn't. I was. I was doing quite a lot of things. I was I was doing a lot of visualization of walking, I was doing a lot of visualization of going about my regular life. There was a time I couldn't stand in the kitchen and make dinner. I visualized standing in the kitchen and making a cup of coffee, a cup of tea, a dinner. And so I did a lot of work in my mind to and this comes from athletes. You know, elite athletes use visualization to win their games or to win their gold medal, right? So I learned a lot from that. Right visualization really helped. I really did a deep dive of research into supplements that help the body to fight inflammation. I was, you know, my whole life I have, I have been either vegetarian or pescetarian, you know, eating fish and shellfish. I I began to introduce things like, like, like chicken into my diet at one point when I recognized the need for more protein. But it's about listening to your body and what it needs in order to heal, supplementation, Ayurvedic medicine. I saw a naturopath. I just began to explore every single thing. Then after about three years, I was cleared to go to physical therapy. Physical therapy has saved me so many times. You know, from sports injuries. I've had torn menisci in my knees, and, you know, doctors would say, I think you're going to need surgery. And physical therapy helped so much that I've avoided that surgery my entire life. So so when the doctor said it was inoperable because of the way the disc ruptured and glommed onto the sciatic nerve and other disease, spinal disease, problems that were hereditary, they could not operate. I began to look at everything else. I began to look at things like magnet therapy, just Reiki healing energy Reiki is energy healing, sound healing. I had been doing music and sound I had been going to sound baths, mostly for stress, relaxation, mindfulness, all the all the good stuff. But then I began to realize that that sound healing is so much more powerful than even that. I got certified as a sound healer and began just expanding my repertoire of sound healing and energy healing work. And now I mean this, this, this, I think you find fascinating. You know, doctors are incorporating. Sound healing and Reiki energy medicine into their hospitals across the United States and Europe, into hospitals departments of integrative therapies. And last year, when my mom was in the hospital for cancer, that that that major hospital in Charlotte, North Carolina, had a department of integrative therapy that worked with the hospital and with hospice to to help people. The science behind it is is being proven by by major major universities all over the country. There's some fascinating work coming out of UCLA here in California, by a researcher who works with medical doctors. The researcher's name is James jimzewski, and he, in collaboration with doctors, have found that the different types of cells in the body, the heart cells, the brain cells, they have their own frequency of hertz, which is simply the measure of vibration of sound. They each have their their own unique vibration. And when cells, if they look in a petri dish of heart cells, to become atrophied or brain cells, they realize that those atrophied cells can be brought back to their normal cellular function by applying those frequencies to the cells so sound reinvigorates them. It holds great promise for the future of medicine. And lots of medical doctors are writing about this. There's a well known oncologist by the name of Dr Mitchell Gaynor, who wrote a wonderful book called The Power of sound healing. And he uses sound therapy himself. He conducts a sound bath for his cancer patients. He believes in it that much right along in compliment with Western medicine, of course, and so I that was one of the things. I really, really, I got certified in sound healing, like I said, I became a Reiki Master, and I began applying those things in my own life when I began doing the sound treatments, in other words, when I was better enough to be out of my completely bedridden state, about three, four years in, I got a gong, and the gong has the widest range, the lowest lows, the highest highs that we can't hear. Many dogs and other animals can hear these sounds, but human ears cannot detect them, but our sound, our cells at the cellular level, pick up on that sound, and I began noticing I'd have really accelerated healing again. It's now been, you know, it's now been, uh, going on. It's been, uh, you know, over seven years, going on eight years that that all of this has been has been healing, but over time, I believe everything is incremental. It's like anything in life. Everything is incremental. You can't go to the gym and lift weights once and have a fit body. You know, you got to keep at it. So applying all of these things. Over the years, I have noticed big changes. So again, to answer your question, it wasn't just one thing. It was a lot of complimentary therapies put together, and then what I call in the book, stick with itness. You know, sticking with it, not just trying it for a short time, really, really incorporating it into my daily self care regimen, right? That's what has made the difference for sure. Michael Hingson ** 48:49 So here's a question, little bit of a quick question, but you talk about thriving a lot, if you were to and you've talked about unstoppable thriving, how would you distill or what would you say are three major points that lead to being able to be an unstoppable thriver, if you will? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 49:06 Oh, I love this question so much. Michael, okay, so my book is a toolkit of, like, 36 tools that get us to answer this question. But I'm going to give you my top three, and I think the very first one is, is really deep self care and self compassion. When things like this happen, we tend to think, Okay, I'll take better care of myself. I'll eat right, or I will exercise more, whatever it happens to be in your own situation, there is something called robust self care and robust self compassion that's really about giving your body everything it needs to heal. If you need to sleep 12 hours a night, that's what you've got to do. And and we all say, Oh, I don't have time for that. You know, I got a busy life. I've got a. These other responsibilities and commitments. I don't have time for that, but that's what your body often needs, is that level of of really deep self care and and when things happen to us again, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritual, dark, Night of the Soul, whatever it happens to be, we tend to think of our bodies and ourselves as betraying us, as being the enemy. I hear my clients say this all the time, and there was a point early on when I was like that. It's like my body has betrayed me. How could this happen? I'm young, I've I'm active, you know, I'm doing all the right stuff. From every standpoint, doctors would say you're doing everything exactly right, and yet I had all this stuff going on. We think our bodies betrayed us, but our bodies and this is a wonderful book by Dr Gabor Mate, who writes, When the body says no, our bodies are sending us loving signals of pain. They're telling us when we need to stop doing stuff or cut back or rest. You know, allergies, anxiety, pick, pick anything you know, arrhythmia, pick anything your body is sending you a signal, we have to say. And this has been hard for me, because recently, I've had some a resurgence of some knee problems, and they were pretty debilitating, and we thought I was going to need knee surgery, you know, that I've been avoiding since I was, like, 14 years old. We thought I was really close to it, and it was really hard to say to my knee, oh my goodness, my beautiful hard working me. You have helped me so much in my life. I'm listening to you and doing deep inquiry. What are you trying to tell me? What am I doing wrong here? Right? I needed more rest. I simply needed more rest. I'm thrilled to say that problem over a few months, and with physical therapy and with doing all the right things, I'm back to walking again. I'm walking as much as I did before. So, so it's about, you know, at one point last year, when my mom had multiple myeloma and was in hospital and then hospice, and incredibly stressful time, I started having arrhythmia. I've never had arrhythmia before. I had to, you know, practice what I've been saying in my book and take a deeper dive and say my wonderful, hard working heart. What is up? Why is this happening to me? Right? So, so it's that is, that is self care and self compassion. So that's that's one big piece, and to be able to get into that dialog with ourselves in our very busy, highly interrupted, device driven world, it's hard to slow down and listen. But that brings me to my second point, and that is really listening to what I call our inner healer. Our inner healer is our intuition. It is our gut instinct, if you will, our bodies. And we knew this when we were children, right? We had instincts. We listen to our instincts. If you walk into a room and there's a person and you don't like that person, you don't hang around that person, you try to get away. It could be, you know, a certain food that you didn't like as a kid, you just didn't want to eat it. Right? As we become adults, you know, whether it's societal conditioning or or we have very busy lives, and we just fall into patterns, or whatever. We stop listening so much, and when we get still, hard to find the time, I know, but even 10 minutes of quiet time where we go out in nature, we go for a walk, we just sit quietly in meditation. I've been meditating since my early 20s. I I love meditation. I know. I recognize it's not for everyone. My clients tell me it's not you know for them necessarily. And we find other ways, but, but, but finding something that connects you with yourself, where you can listen to your dreams, where you can listen to your intuition, follow your gut instincts about what feels right for you, if, if something doesn't feel right, don't push yourself to do it and and that is something that I think it can be very, very hard for us in our in our modern age, to slow down enough and do. And I alluded to this the third one earlier, finding our medicine. Nature is medicine, creativity is medicine, as I found sound healing, Reiki, energy, their medicine. What is your medicine to all of our listeners out there? What is your medicine? Do you know what your medicine is? What brings you joy? What makes time fly, where you just don't even realize how much time has has transpired? Those things really, really help us to to find that joyful, happy place where we're in the flow and and, as I mentioned by the book I I referenced cured, that is healing, but also what we what we've been talking about so much, which is your mind is your medicine? How can you harness the power of your mind to heal, whether it's visualizing, telling yourself affirmations, just stopping yourself when you get to the point where you're going down the dark rabbit hole, just saying, Oh, there I go again. Yeah, going to that place. Let me. Let me just stop that and choose something different. Like we said, everything's a choice. Choose something different is making your mind your medicine. Those are my top big three. I mean, the whole the science behind this is, you know, everything in the universe, as Albert Einstein and Tesla Nikola, Tesla told us, and lots of other scientists, everything is energy. Everything vibrates. If everything is energy, our thoughts, our our words, our actions, our feelings, our energy. So choose the good stuff, right? You know, catch yourself when you're when you're, when you're and we look, we all have days, I have them regularly where I find myself getting in a bit of a snarky mood or something, and, you know, things just aren't going quite right, or I'm not feeling quite right, and I go to that bad place, but I quickly say, ah, Kathy, there you go. You're going to that place. What can we choose that would be more positive. That is a choice of energy, and energy is healing? Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 57:06 well, we only have a few minutes, but I have a couple of quick questions for you. Hopefully they're quick. You've talked about sound healing and a sound bath, but not everybody can make it to a place to get a sound bath. How can they deal with sound healing at home? Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 57:23 I love that question, and I can make it brief. Okay, so, so we don't necessarily have to go to a sound bath or a yoga studio to get sound healing. Many things in our lives, our voice. We don't need special equipment. We've got a voice. Right coming singing have been found. DR. DR, Jonathan Goldman has been writing about this for decades, the power of the humble hum. It connects our ear to our vagus nerve, the wandering nerve through our bodies that touches all the organs that controls heartbeat, blood pressure, all the things we never think about, coming and singing are hugely stimulating. That's one thing, percussive tapping on our body. I happen to be a drummer, so I tend to drum. Drum is rhythmic. It's the sound of our mother's heartbeat when when we were in the womb and and it it helps us to settle into a place of of coherence. And so those are just two small things that have very, very big benefit. We can just tap on our, on our, on our, our chest bone, or there's a thing called Emotional Freedom tapping EFT, where you tap on different parts of the body. I have written to make this really brief, Michael, I've written an article about sound healing. I also have another article about your mind is your medicine, and another one about the power of intuition. Three articles in yoga magazine, the people can find for free on my website. And we'll, we'll get later. Yeah, so Michael Hingson ** 59:04 an observation, and then two quick questions. It's, you know, there's an advantage of having lived on the earth a while and having a memory. I remember when the United States started interacting with China during the Nixon administration. And somewhere on the line, we started to hear about this thing called acupuncture that we had never really heard of before, and a lot of people poo pooted and so on. And now it is a much more common mechanism that is used. It was even used on Roselle, my guide dog who was with me in the World Trade Center when she developed some back problems, and it and it helped. But the reality is, just because it isn't something that goes along with the traditional Western medicine approach, and even my doctor at Kaiser will say this, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Work and that it is invaluable, because it is and we really need to to look at all options. Having said that, let me ask you this. You said that you have a free gift for anybody listening. Can you tell us about that? I Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:00:17 do? I do. Oh, good. Oh, good. Acupuncture, I would just add, it's much like sound healing. You know, it's been around for 1000s of years. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:26 It's been around a long time. It's just that we haven't had exposure to it, Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:00:30 that's right. And acupuncture was one of the things on my when I said I use very many modalities. I did, I've done a lot of acupuncture over decades. So yes, I'm a big believer in acupuncture, part of why it works is because the same as the chakra system in Indian Ayurvedic medicine, right? These are the energy centers of the body, and they can get blocked. So here's the free gift, Michael, I'm thrilled to be able to offer this to to our listeners today at my website, and we'll link the Earl at the at the very top, you can you can access this for free. Dr Charlize Davis, a doctor of functional medicine, and fellow Reiki master and I, have put together a few modules called Healing the heart chakra. And she comes from the medical perspective of saying, when your heart chakra is blocked, what does that turn up with? As in your, in your, in your health, you know, sure, the heart, of course, the lungs, yeah. But shoulders, shoulder issues, all kinds of things. And she goes into this in great detail. And then I come at it from the perspective of what we were just talking about, the chakra, what a blocked heart chakra feels like. What is happening in your life that that would tell you that your heart chakra is is blocked. It's more than just, I don't feel love. I mean, that's a common thing, but there's, it's way more than that. And then the best part of the free gift you'll learn about all of these things. And then the best part, I think, is that I do a sound bath geared toward balancing and opening the heart chakra, and I also give Reiki energy during that. And Dr Charlize, as a as a Reiki Master, also gives Reiki energy throughout the sound bath as well. So it's really powerful. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:26 There's a link to all of that on there's a link to that all on the website. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:02:29 It's at the very top of the website. So tell us Michael Hingson ** 1:02:33 your tell us what your website is and how people can reach out to you. Because I'm assuming that you you do interact with people all over Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:02:41 I do. I do sound baths. I do individualized sound baths, which target to your very specific issues. So how do people reach out to you? My website is suffering to thriving.com. And there they can. They can reach out to me. They can learn more about my work. They can look at my book, suffering to thriving. They also can connect with all of my social media, and they can access how to work with me and email me from that place as well. So it's all right there at the website, on the home page, at the bottom, there are more podcasts and articles, lots of free article content too, if anyone's interested in exploring this at a deeper level, so suffering Michael Hingson ** 1:03:25 to thriving.com. Well, that's right, Kathy, I want to thank you for being here and giving us so much information. There's a lot of very invaluable stuff here, and I hope people will listen and have an open mind, because the reality is, the more we explore, the more we learn, and the more we learn, the more we can put into practice, and the more we do, especially for ourselves, the better we'll be. So I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening today. This has been fun, and I hope that you have found it fun. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what you think. About our episodes and this one today, in specific, feel free to email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or you can email me at speaker. At Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S o, n.com, I would also invite you to wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star rating. We value your reviews, your input, and especially your your five star ratings whenever you feel inclined to do so. So please give us a five star rating. If you know of anyone who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, let us know. Email me at [e-mail] introduce us, and we'll go from there. And of course, Kathy, same for you. If you know anyone, we'd love to hear from you. But one more time, I'd like to thank you for being here and for taking the time. To be with us today. Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:05:01 Thank you, Michael, it has been just a delight, and thank you for the beautiful work that you do. Michael Hingson ** 1:05:11 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.