Ep 97: Jeff Schoep | How does a person change, and is change real?

Rethinking Communication

Lately, I’ve been fascinated by the psychology of change.

There came a point in late 2022 when I started to notice that many of the conversations I’ve had here on the show have carried with them an undertone of change. I’ve gone back and listened to many of the interviews, and change pops up quite frequently.

In fact, based on what I’ve gathered, one of the chapters of the book I’m currently writing asks the question: Do you believe people can change?

It is such a fun question because everyone I’ve ever asked that question of has answered me with an optimistic yes.

However, what I’ve noticed is that we often don’t act this way. We act as if people cannot change on their own, and so we try to force change to happen.

And we all know how that goes, right? I mean, I know I love being forced to change, don’t you?

But if we believe people can change, and we acknowledge true change can’t be forced, then how and why does it happen?

This is what I wanted to explore with Jeff Schoep. Jeff was my guest here on the show back in episode 57, and you might recall that Jeff is the former leader of the largest neo-Nazi organization in the United States, the National Socialist Movement.

Now, Jeff has left that world and ideology behind, and instead, he works to deradicalize others.

Jeff is someone who has gone through a radical change, so who better to walk through the psychology of change with than Jeff? Who better to understand what brings about change and why it's so hard, even when the thing we are clinging to is, to so many of us, so obviously wrong?

Check out Jeff's work at https://beyondbarriersusa.org/.