Ace - A Master of Movement - Noise of the Broke Boys - Episode 003

Noise Of The Broke Boys

BBoy Ace, a west coast pioneer in Hip Hop, sits down to discuss his origins, work ethic, and thoughts on the culture of hip hop and breakin'.

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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.
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in today's episode I talked to the West

Coast pioneer innovator and frankly

legendary b-boy and hip-hop figure my

friend and influence b-boy ace please

enjoy the episode hello everybody

welcome to the show today I have the man

the myth the legend the teacher the

pioneer the father the fiance future

husband and b-boy he's been dancing

since the beginning of time so very long

time 91 yeah how long since 1991 1991

well man you know what's interesting is

that I was talking to someone recently

was that breaking kind of started around

like mid 70s right is that about what

you think yeah that's that's at least

what I've heard so you've been breaking

for probably more than half of the

lifetime of hip-hop that's like really

crazy to even think of that it's such a

young dance such a young culture that in

a hundred years when it's still around

people are gonna look back and go like

what was happening in the beginning

because it was like there's so much

fluctuation in and that this era right

here is like really what helped kind of

define it to be whatever it ends up

becoming well the thing that's

interesting to me now is because there's

been absent flows to where it starts top

starts stops but from 91 on it's been

consistent mhm it's been going there's

there's been no stop yeah so it's gained

as MoMA as much momentum as there's ever

been and it's been a consistent thing so

since this time that that I began you

know and there were some started you

know who it was going a little

before I started but it's you know many

have stopped but the whole thing is kept

going so that that's a beautiful part of

pop that yeah yeah yeah

for me you know I got started I had no

interest in dance I didn't start

originally as a b-boy interesting I

originally started as a house dancer

West Coast Oh a West Coast house yeah

which is different from the house that

house now yeah yeah that that is known

it's like a mixture of New Jack with a

lot more yeah upper body movement I see

so you know there was there was New Jack

and like that was fun mm-hmm

but for me I didn't really have an

interest in doing that my brother was a

really good at New Jack he was little

yeah and he tried to show me and I

couldn't do it like a lot like you know

like I struggled even with something

that was less complicated okay but I

didn't have an interest in it so I was

like I'm cool on it yeah no big deal

I want no part of it then the person who

ended up being my teacher I and crazily

you know it's crazy to say but to this

day one of the greatest dancers I've

ever seen

Aaron L Coloma Oh from Palm Springs okay

he was a house dancer yeah he used to

pop when he was little and he went into

New Jack and then he went into house and

super talented and he saw my brother who

was really good at New Jack and he

wanted to teach little kids to be to be

great house dancers yeah yeah yeah so

his intent was to teach my brother and

so that's how I met him and I brought

him to my house to teach my brother yeah

and while he was waiting for my brother

he was just moving and that was the

craziest thing I ever saw yeah life like

it was literally like poetry in motion

hmm I was tripping how old are you at

that time oka hot 16 some along those

lines I believe I was a sophomore in

high school okay second half and I saw

him move and I just couldn't believe

that somebody can move like that yeah

like I had never really seen anything

like that and seeing it in person is a

completely different experience hmm

so I was bugged out and I just kind of

knew that that's what I wanted to do

that's cool yeah it was it was harassed

him I literally harassed him for a

couple weeks thank you to teach me

Wow and he wouldn't because he told me

he said do you understand like you can't

do new jack

and that's like basic arithmetic yeah

house is far more complicated so it's

kind of like doing pre-algebra yeah yeah

he's like you want to jump steps you

want to go straight to precalculus yeah

algebra whatever it is without even

knowing basic arrhythmia don't even know

how a plus sign yeah you can't even just

make your lower body coordinate much

less upper body and lower body

synchronized beautiful movements okay

but I was undeterred okay it was I saw

it and from there like I just knew I had

to have it okay and so I just kept after

it yep I kept bugging him and finally

one day all right all right

I'm gonna teach you one step you're

gonna learn that step and then you come

to me with that step and I'm gonna teach

you another step and I was like deal

okay deal that's a good deal yeah

but I had to work for that one step yeah

yeah and but he but he realized I was

not going to stop mm-hm and

from there it was a rap I I was 24/7

with it

wake up move act is practicing try and

trying to coordinate this uncoordinated

body of mine yeah

dirt at school during nutrition during

lunch after school at practice at his

house before bed it was crazy I was a

maniac

yeah I was a maniac but I wanted to be I

wanted to move like he moved and I knew

I was far off I was I was not you know I

was realistic about where I was at him

where he was at but I wanted to get

there

yes quick as possible so I was 24/7 with

it soothing yeah to the point where he

literally had to pull me aside at some

point and tell me that you know your

mother your mother misses you yeah yeah

yeah yeah love that love your

determination but you gotta sleep

sometimes the guys are getting a little

a little annoyed that you'd never stop

yeah and I was hurt I was hurt yeah like

I literally avoided didn't see him for a

while taking different routes to class

really yeah yeah yeah and literally was

that like after a week we cross paths

and he kind of cut me off and was like a

man like where you been like and he's

like don't take it that way you know

like we're not saying stop you know the

guys you know just just take a couple

breathe you know like breathe for ya you

know but yeah it's so that began my long

journey at the beginning I was getting

pretty good at house you know after a

good little while

and then we went up to an event called

Filipino weekend up in Delano just past

Bakersfield

yeah and that's you know the the group

we were with was boys and style bis and

so we were going up there and you know

we were going to meet with the rest of

the group and we're under the assumption

that a group the soul brothers which is

famous house moved from LA we're gonna

be there and you know wanted to battle

them yeah yeah and they end up never end

up showing up our cuz one of the crew

members cousins from San Jose a group

called dangerous image came down and

like they were gonna be with us yeah and

they were a choreography group okay

that also braked because San Jose was

big into braking amount of time and we

all got bored and somehow it ended up

being a battle between dangerous image

oh and you guys and B is okay except for

they braked him we didn't so you know

they were they were really good yeah and

that the main guy from their group was a

walks guy mm-hmm

this guy Alan hmm and he did walks even

he was really good he not

merry-go-rounds and all that but he had

really good walks yeah yeah hence the

inspiration yeah when we started the

very next day we stopped Houston and we

be started breaking is that quick it was

an instant like - it was like watching

magic you know like really that the

power precision grace of you know

high-level break-in yeah it was like wow

like okay that that that is you know it

was inspiring

so yeah we you know

we started break-in Aaron L was breaking

but he was popping uh and you know and

he used to do that back in the days and

since he was such a good dancer and so

coordinated he picked up like oh he was

an amazing popper like amazing but yeah

that that became our road and since our

main inspiration from the opposition was

a walks guy mmm bis became a walks yeah

we we did spins we did you know all the

spins but we care deeply about walks

yeah that's that's kind of crazy because

like definitely you guys like it it's

like walks and for people who don't know

walks it's like the float how do you

explain yeah well that that you're on

your hands you're walking on your hands

legs are off the ground and you're kind

of going in let's ignore loading yeah

it's like a pocket of air is underneath

your body and you're just walking around

on your hands and there's so many

variations of it but yeah yeah and you

guys innovated those moves which is

crazy that like I guess before you even

break you saw someone else like kind of

well I mean there were guys in the past

you know like we didn't really know him

too much except for when we started

break-in since there were no examples of

breaking like we saw it in person

mm-hmm and then when we wanted to start

learning we're you know just a few

break-in yeah you know beat Street like

those were our only examples of breakin

because there was no YouTube there was

no footage it was what you saw in person

other than those couple movies that were

on some VHS tapes you know and of course

there were guys you know in B Street and

break-in that that did you know some

high-level walks you know there's buck

for of course oh you know here is his

Turtles he's super fast you know amazing

but not not a lot of and then of course

in break-in

there's handyman you know amazing you

know his amazing walks but that those

are only a couple variations that were

shown on tape not the rest we were just

going and figuring it out yeah and you

know hearing from some of the oh geez

for master movements you know giving us

ideas on things that they had done or

seen or heard about you know so they

were kind of just giving us some input

try this oh there's a walk like this all

there's you know but they couldn't do it

they were already done but that lease

were given us the ideas and kind of a

framework of what you know just some

things to try and work on uh-huh and

from there we were just working at it

you know like determined to get good at

that no yeah you know and then of course

it ended up leading you know after

several years to higher level walks I me

and my brother were teaching the guys

from 101 up in Pasadena and you know

those were guys like brick Rand dab

stones which at the time his name was

there because you know they used to tag

so okay and did you ever do it I was

never in attacking oak I just straight

into Jane into dancing yeah I went

straight from like sports into dance

yeah you know but yeah you know so those

guys you know we we taught those guys

and then had the scene was just you know

getting a little yeah so what inspired I

guess your creativity within that dance

I mean I guess obviously going from

housing to to breaking and I mean I

imagine a lot of a lot of that had

influenced your style I mean because

housing

or at least the housing from back then

was very kind of kind of jumpy and right

well yes I believe LOI well very flowy

but you know and there was different

styles in in house you know it was not

same movements there were guys that had

a very rigid hard-hitting style there

was others they had flowing there there

was a lot of popping elements oh yeah in

it so so even in in the West Coast house

there there was a lot of different looks

yeah you know that that kind of

differentiated each you know dancers own

particular persona yeah you know and the

way they moved so you know when we

started moving into break-in we were it

was mainly power based mm-hm we did some

style but from what we had seen because

our experience was very little and there

was no footage there was not a lot of

differentiation in style so I kind of we

kind of did it just to say we had style

just to kind of check that box but it it

wasn't at least for myself I was not

highly inspired to do style because I

felt like it was in a box from what I

what I had seen the experience it wasn't

until the tapes of storm and them that

kind of made their way over here that

like the realization that oh you can do

so much with it it's it really is just

like house yeah like it really is you

know style is really as far as your mind

your creativity your persona yeah yeah

like yeah levels personality silly silly

things

yeah that end up looking dope you know

like there was just that that

realization that oh like there's no

limits there's no like yeah like it's

dance just at different levels and yeah

a different way but it's still dance

just just like house so from their style

it you know I was all about that you

know like it it became a very fun and a

never-ending puzzle that to this day I

work on yeah yeah it is a puzzle I mean

what drove me to breaking actually is

something similar is that it there was

no limit you can come come into it and

just kind of have fun with it do

whatever you want make it work you know

really like if you had a dumb idea to

see to try to make something work just

roll around on the ground see make try

to make it work you know some of the

most amazing steps that happen are by

accident definitely you know just from

the attempt of something new you you

provide yourself with an opportunity to

do something that you know maybe it

works and that's amazing

or it doesn't work out but it turns out

to be a better step yeah because it was

something that your body just

automatically had that on a DNA level

yeah that you were not aware of you know

with your own consciousness but on a

more subatomic level yeah your body

already had it yeah in tow and was just

ready for you just for you to give it

the opportunity yeah I'm completely

convinced that every move in braking was

from someone just falling down and going

oh let me try to control that and do the

same thing though but you know and just

make it look cool you know well well

yeah I mean it it you know it's a

constant thing to where you're trying to

like expand or go into neutral uncharted

territory yeah you know when we first

started like you know for me the thing

that keeps me coming back is I know I'll

never have this bad boy figure it out

you know but it's so fun just because

I'm I'm always searching for things like

some

No you know like like as if I was a

brand-new b-boy who it was first

stepping onto the floor for the first

time and I have that same thought

process and what I love is the guys you

know Rob and Cujo and all the other guys

you know that that run in our circle

have a similar mind frame yeah of play

mm-hmm you know like what we do is very

serious but we play like children you

know like it's it's something that

brings joy that's something that we you

know approached like the first time

we're not afraid to give each other

input or to to move in a weird position

you know just because yeah there's

something exhilarating about about that

just playing around and just planning

you know something pull one actually

told me is that the reason he likes the

word b-boy rather than something

different like be men or the adult or

whatever is that really you have your

own adult responsibilities but when you

come to break you are letting your inner

child to come out to play and that's why

the word b-boy or b-girl is more

appropriate than something like a B man

or B woman just because you're letting

your child come out and have fun and I I

think anybody who is I don't want to say

doing it properly because not to demean

anyone else but at least for myself to

me that's doing it right yeah it is

allowing yourself to be free

and I think when you you know

particularly associate with children

there's a freedom that they have that as

adults we lose many at least many lose

on various levels they they lose their

freedom they lose their they have these

preconceived notions that oh well I'm an

adult now yeah and so I need to respond

this way or I need to give this

I need to do you know and that's not the

case that you know you could absolutely

be a responsible person a caring

individual that handles all the various

responsibilities of your day-to-day but

still be that child to still carry your

inner child in various parts of your

life I mean I still I still watch anime

and cartoons oh yeah

to this day yeah yeah you know it's it's

a you know it's funny I had this thing

with my yeah I'd said the other day we

were watching something it had to do

with you know fairy tales type stuff in

and for a second she seemed

disinterested I said okay you know let's

turn this off I'll watch this later and

she's like oh no don't be like that

she's like it's just you know I'm not a

child I didn't want I said well why do

you you know like why why do you have to

lose your imagination just because we're

a certain age why why do you have to

give up your imagination why do you have

to give these things up like we handle

all the things we need to handle you

know like they're not hurting you that

there is there is nothing wrong with

having an imagination and creativity and

holding on to that that childlike party

yourself and and I think it helps us

connect and you know even with our own

children you know why like I think our

children are more connected to us and

love us all the more because we

understand them just you know on some

level just a little bit different than

maybe a Parenthood isn't holding on to a

part there yeah their inner child yeah

this is like a subject that's pretty

dear to me because you know my mother

she's an artist and she's you know she

was working with a lot of people that

were you know under they had a lot of

problems drug abuse all sorts of stuff

like that so she was running this

program where she would teach them art

kind of as a therapy and they were

finding that when these people really

hadn't

done anything creative in their life for

a long time and once they started doing

that creative these creative things it

started like sparking up a change in

their life for the better so that they

were more willing to get their life

together and so it was like something

that they were just lacking as a human

in their life and so it made me really

think that or believe that creativity is

just like this fundamental thing that

that humans need and I mean and I think

it's deeply connected with like play you

know this is our way we play well I mean

like of course people and is one thing

you know being able to play laughter

mm-hmm

you know of course the scientific

studies you know yeah yeah how laughter

and being able to tap into things that

bring us joy mm-hmm you know life is

hard before you know particularly for

adults a lot of responsibilities to be

able to take a moment for yourself to be

able to put all of that on pause and to

be able to let go of everything in tap

into something that is that fulfills you

that brings you fulfillment brings you a

joy you know and different people find

it in different ways you know and

certainly you know dance does that for

us

but yeah it's a it's an important thing

to be able to find things that bring you

meaning that bring you joy that that

allow you to play and create you know in

one form or fashion mm you know when

people talk about me and dance and you

know like I guess I still look fairly

young you know I'm 45 now but you know

most that speak with me think I'm much

younger and it's just because I think

it's because I allow myself I make some

for myself you know there there's a

different side different purpose whether

it be taking care of myself you know

dance has done a lot for me you know the

way I take care of myself the way I eat

sleep the way I you know take time for

exercise stretching and and that's all

for my dance yeah you know so for me

dance has been you know a true blessing

just because I would have to find the

motivations you know to somehow pull and

do those things on my own but you know I

would have to generate it somewhere else

because for me my motivation for doing

all of those things has to do with my

performance as a dancer and you know

it's funny I was talking about storm as

you know motivation one of the things I

liked is I'd seen him on many occasions

but never spoke with them because he was

always surrounded by so many people so

many other dancers they had admiration

for him yeah because of course it's

deserved but I never wanted to meet him

in that way because even though I have

all the admiration in the world for how

he influenced me I don't think any one

is better than me I don't think I'm

better than anyone else but I don't

think anyone else is better than me

mm-hmm

you know we're humans yeah you know that

inspire each other but I didn't want him

to see me that way

to where everyone's like tugging at his

coattails yeah so so even though I had

opportunities I never spoke with him and

then one of the times at one of the free

saw sessions I had seen him with the

guys from soul control with which are

like my little brothers Charles and Cujo

and they were sitting and just talking

with them and I was like amazing yeah

because those are my guys and I could

just sit down and talk uh-huh you know

and I got they introduced me to him and

I had the opportunity to

be able to let him know that I really

appreciated what he had done for me

helping me I inspired me and helped me

to understand yeah that that it really

was like dance you know and made style

fun about a week later he was up north

for an event up that way and Charles was

going up there to hang out with them and

and kind of take care of him show him

around drives him and had invited me to

come I went up there and so from there I

got to be around him more and just talk

you know and with and humanized walked

well yeah yeah not not just about dance

just about whatever oh yeah and you know

like I think one of the things he

appreciates is when people just treat

him like a normal person

yeah yeah like you know he understands

that that he's had impact but he he

knows he's a normal guy too you know and

wants to have stimulating conversation

with people who who treat him just like

any other person and we had that you

know and to this day we do I was talking

with him the other day and we're

chopping up over some other stuff you

know but we were able to build on that

and then when we finally danced together

like we we hadn't you know we just hung

out and talked hmm philosophies on

whether it be life b-boying to dance the

way we saw it and we saw things very

much the same and then it wasn't until

the very end of the weekend that we were

over at mega man's house and it was I

think his lady's birthday and we were in

all in the living room big wood floor

you know okay and we started off locking

and we were having fun that way and then

I said oh now I feel like breaking

and we we started breaking he went out

the guys were going out he went out and

then there was a time I was gonna go I

was gonna go out and I went out and I

think he like he just wasn't he didn't

think that I could I guess dance on the

level I was dancing huh

so I got up and he was about to go out

and he kind of had like a uh like and

then he pushed somebody else out and

they went out instead and then it's like

and then he ran something through his

mind and then of course right after that

person finished she went out and

destroyed it yeah but me and him must

have went like 20-something around oh

wow

yeah like we were just having fun

Yelp plane and and I didn't know it at

the time you know cuz I was just having

fun exchanging and it ended up becoming

a thing where a lot of the guys were

watching and meet me and storm were

exchanging to you know just playing

and I remember Gerald rest in peace you

know one of our other Gerald caster low

he had come in and said yo Charles wants

to go like like you know we're waiting

on you guys and I was like oh storm we

got to go and storm had told general

like yo tell Charles we'll be out in a

little while and then he looked at me

said yo ace let's keep going

and then we just kept going for or a

while longer and when we left you know

he was like really happy you know I mean

I knew I was happy but he was having

he's like yo ace like I haven't danced

like that in like I can't even tell you

how long you know and I was like get out

of here bro like you know like you're in

a different country like every week you

know surrounded by amazing dancers

uh-huh

no no no you know it's different you

know like people either are in like

looking like look at me like too high or

they're trying too hard to impress me

you know like instead like just six he

said me and you we were just kind of

having a conversation you know and and

that's the whole thing about dance dance

is a conversation you know like like

he's like you were doing something

that's giving me ideas and I was going

out and doing something then you were

getting ideas and he like he said you

know that that I haven't had that in a

really long time yeah you know where

somebody just had a conversation with me

you know and he said like for me that

that just blew my mind and like I said

you know we well we're kind of I don't

know to me kind of like kindred spirits

like you know like we see things a lot a

lot the same way and you know I feel

blessed that I have people like Robyn

puja you know like we're all kind of in

that you know like I try to surround

myself with people that are like-minded

you know that you have that

open-mindedness and and if they don't I

try to cultivate it yeah yeah you know

and help them to understand that because

at least for myself that's where I found

the real joy in dance is in the exchange

in the conversation in being open-minded

to new ways of moving and taking

something and flipping it yeah you know

on its side on its back on its head

whatever it might be you know cuz

there's no one way of looking at this

thing like you know and the beautiful

part is we will never have this thing

figured out and it's what keeps me

coming back yeah because when I come out

to a dance floor when I go to a practice

there's an exhilaration that I have no

idea what's gonna happen today yeah yeah

and that's amazing uh-huh you know I

like I gave up the preconceived notion

oh this is what I'm gonna do this I have

a few ideas like oh I want to try this

today on that I just give it up because

I found that when I go out with

preconceived notions that oh I'm gonna

do this this this and this you think too

much

that's what it becomes well I mean in

the end like we talked about that

subatomic level how you go in and you're

gonna do this move and it doesn't work

out and sometimes it works out better

yeah because your body on a subatomic

level new nope we're doing this yeah

when you try to work against your body

when you work you know like your body's

gonna win and you could just come out

all kinds of ugly you like you know like

at some level you have to give in to

wherever your body's at on that day like

oh I'm will work on this if it if your

body says nope we're doing this instead

you got you like you're best off

trusting because in the end your your

DNA knows better yeah for me like what

I've always done is and what I've been

trying to do a lot more is like when I

train I'll train you know different

sequences of movements that I think work

well together but when I actually dance

you know perform or battle or whatever I

try to just not think of anything I just

try to focus on music try to focus on

whoever I'm battling or whatever I'm

performing at just focus on the moment

and just let my body do whatever it's

gonna do because I've spent all the time

in practice working through different

combinations that I think makes sense

that I trust that my body's gonna know

when to do that or when not to do that

so if I just focus more on music and

just let let it happen it just feels

more natural to me it probably looks

more natural to and then hopefully those

combinations I have been practicing make

their way out in some form and you know

I'm happy with that too so it sounds

like that's maybe like what you do as

well yeah I mean I have ideas you know

like I think it's it's it's at least for

myself good to go out like okay I want

these things to come out at some point

in time you know yeah like and

a lot of the muscle memory will kick in

yeah it is moving yeah you know if

you've put together certain combinations

and certain movements you know they're

gonna come together at some point

they're gonna execute just because

you've done these different things but

of course there's a spontaneity to our

dance and you know working in with music

and all that you know and of course I

feel that music is important I feel like

I think there's some people that that

play too hard to the music to where they

start to kind of lose themselves that

and when you hit him you know and and to

each their own

yeah every single beat you know

sometimes when people work every single

beat then they they kind of lose I guess

a certain moment like for me like I'm in

the flow of the music the way I dance I

stay in the flow in the pocket of the

music and then I accent different parts

that I want really to stick out or stand

out and being in that wave the rest just

going and flowing through the rest of

the music you know and there are some

people who are amazing hidden every

every single beat for me I I see a lot

of hit or miss with that though too

sometimes it's a super amazing moment

that's etched in the history of time

that's enough well there's others that

it was like I kind of lost the message

oh yeah like they're trying too hard to

do every single thing and it's like okay

I don't they stay in the story you're

actually trying to portray now yeah

because I mean at least for me I feel

like when we're you know when I go out

and the dancers that I seem to gravitate

a little bit to a a little bit more

they're they're moving and they're

telling some sort of story you know

to make you know beginning a middle and

an end you know and just for me the ones

that every single be every single time

like I said there there are some

spectacular moments you know some rounds

that will always be remembered but then

there's also some times that you are

left walking away soon I didn't really

get what they were trying to tell me you

know just me you know that just the way

you know I see it so so it's definitely

a catch-22 and it's a difficult thing to

pull off and only a certain few are

really at least to me that that I've

seen that really pull that off and make

me say oh wow okay they're like that

that they pull it off more times than

not yet they have a higher ratio you

know higher percentage of being able to

pull it off what what is one of the I

guess highlight moments that you've seen

I guess in all your history of the dance

what's something that stands out I mean

obviously your story with battling storm

is probably a highlight but what about

other things maybe something that you

may be a battling with we were we were

sharing you know yeah it was a

conversation yeah of course that was a

hot like you know like I've just had you

know with the moments there's there's

just so many you know I mean just no

just sharin in the community seeing all

the different generations of dancers you

know come through and give their give

their party inspire in their way and

then being able on our end to be able to

partake in and share with them like as

you know whatever practice that I'm at

or event if I see something that I feel

can be helpful to another dancer you

know I'll usually make my way over and

just kind of throw it out there

say you know like this is take it or

leave it you know you don't you

certainly don't need to use this but

this is this is something that I see

that I think can help your dance but you

know like like I hope you don't take

that you know the wrong way yeah

because we've always been a firm

believer you know me and the guys have

always been firm believers in in helping

bring bring the next dancers or even

veterans like it doesn't matter like

I've had guys that have come to me

you know so many like you know and say

hey you know I know people look at us

like legends you know but like we we

want to grow to like you know what like

doesn't mean that that we don't want to

learn yeah you know and I knew what that

kind of meant like that they were

looking for help and for me like I'll

help anybody who has a decent heart you

know so I my response has always been

like well yeah of course like if we're

not learning and growing what are we

doing here you know like anyone who

thinks they have this dance figured out

yeah they're out of their mind

yeah and they've stopped growing yeah

you know that that that's two things cuz

the moment you think you have anything

figured out growth is done like there is

no more growth the moment you think you

have it figured out you're wrong you

don't have it figured yeah because it's

an endless thing but if for those who

are you know lucid or out of their mind

enough to think that they do have

figured out and oh I'm on this level so

the growth is done like it you stop so

so anyone who who has ever like a like I

said I offer it up you know to to anyone

just really I'll walk over you know and

offer it up so if somebody were to ask

me you know in many who are considered

legends of course

many you know they've been my students

you know and others that have made their

legend status on their own but just are

still on the path of growth if they've

ever had a question or wanted to learn

something I'm all for it you know

because yeah like we don't

let's keep growing let's keep doing it

you know feel free to ask me anytime

like I love it you know it's

ever-changing thing I mean hip-hop I

guess if you look at it throughout its

history every couple years it's a

different thing and so if you're not I

guess you know evolving with it you're

also you know you're losing yourself a

little bit you know kinda you know as

far as ever evolving it on some level

it's fads - oh yeah you know on some

level things come and go so you know

it's cool to pay attention and to keep

growing but if it's something that that

calls to you - cuz in the end you still

have to be true to who you are as an

artist yeah so there's a lot of things

that I see that like look great but I

don't feel they're for me

so I continue to grow in the ways that

move me you know because if we're

constantly worrying about what somebody

else is doing and what's in right now

then we're never really gonna find

ourselves you know like we're never

gonna find who we are as a dancer and to

continue to build us like to build

yourself as an artist so but if so you

know it's good to pay attention because

if you see something that says wow like

yes I want to use that and incorporate

that into my dance because I think that

that will take what I want to do and you

know change you know take my art where I

want it to go

you know like we talked about at one of

the last practices a vision a vision for

your dance you know you may not be able

to do everything that you want to do but

I think any any great artists has had

some sort of vision for what they want

to do like some grand scheme like Oh

like that's kind of crazy you know and

you may not be able to do it now but if

you have when you have that vision you

know you kind of start doing different

movements and different exercises and

stretches and whatever else whatever

else it might be to kind of work towards

that goal you know to work towards that

vision you know and then of course

there's a whole lot of play that comes

along that that will change your vision

around but but I feel like you know all

the great artists have to have some some

sort of vision you know even if it

changes along the way you know to have a

vision and to work towards a vision you

know and not be to be cognizant of

what's around you but not consumed to

where you have to do what they do to

know like okay you know that's dope and

I recognize that's dope but that's not

you know I'm gonna continue to do what I

do and take the parts that I really want

that I feel will take me towards my

vision yeah yeah the thing that me and

Vince do a lot is we'll see what other

people are doing you know what the fad

really is and rather than try to do that

we'll go okay if someone does that

against me in a battle like what am I

gonna do well ya know I mean I know you

can respond to it well especially if

you're looking for battles you know the

responses to to questions you know or

yeah to be able to respond and kind of

you know in a battle you know

this is what is generally out there yeah

this is gonna come and you have a

response you know those are just good

battle tactics to be able to have a

response within what you did well yeah

what I do yeah you know but but you

already have answers to the question

exactly you know so yeah those are those

are things that are very important and

then of course like you said you know

and then things like battles and stuff

like that that's a that's a whole

different you know it's its own element

and conversation and being able to I

mean of course you have to do what you

do but be able to like even the way we

package what we do you know our

movements and and the packaging and

delivery of what we do can be the energy

in which we do what we do it's very

different yeah you know like yeah you

know it but I think one of the important

things is that it comes from a genuine

place you see a lot of actors you know

in the scene to where yeah it's that's

not really who they are it's not a

genuine part of their dance actor I've

never heard someone say that but that's

what it is yeah it's acting you know and

the ones who like are best at what they

do I think more times than not things do

come from a genuine place yeah that's

why it receives more credit like then

not because people can fill something

genuine behind their movements and at

least for the ones to me that that stand

out and over time like they still like

not just when in a jam and not just when

in an event but being admired being able

to be understood as a pioneer of what

they do and to be like to draw

inspiration from other

to where because they just see something

that is more genuine in in in their

movements than the typical person who

executes things and wins that Jam

there's a lot of people who win gems

that are not maybe and never really be

remembered you know I'm sure there's so

many people you know when you look back

you're like who won this gem who on that

Jam and not remember them whereas

there's people like Rob Silla or a Cujo

yeah that have lost more gems than the

other one and you remember there but but

they will when when their name is talked

about people know and are like wow like

that guy is amazing I'm glad you brought

that up because I have the same thought

about it is because there's so many

battles I remember vividly because you

know either I was there I saw footage

and I was like this is a crazy amazing

battle and I can't remember who won you

know that battle or who won the jam or

anything about it other than the battle

and who was in it I could tell you

exactly what each person is wearing or

whatever in the battle but I'm like I

have no idea if they even won the gym I

don't even know where the jam was you

know what I mean yeah and I could care

less to be honest but that battle there

was crazy and it's cemented in my brain

as like one of the coolest things I've

ever seen you know and so it just goes

to show you that the jam is not the

defining thing it's and the win and

winning a jam is not the defining thing

it's it's like the moments that you're

creating the moments that you create the

way you inspire and an hour inspire by

others and the way you inspire others

with dancing from a genuine place you

know just yeah though though many

dancers have come to me over the years

and said oh what do you think I should

work on and what would you recommend for

this you know Ana's like okay you know

we'll one

what is your end goal are you looking to

win a jam or are you looking to be

remembered mmm

you know because those are two

completely different things yeah yeah

you know and then I usually bring up the

analogy of things like Cujo and Rob and

stuff like that you know and that that

when people bring up their name they're

always like people now automatically

know who they are yeah you know and

they're inspired and think like wow like

yeah he dances like nobody's business

like I don't even know how he came up

with that you know whereas there's many

others that that are amazing

they you know they are they execute you

know mm-hmm well maybe they just haven't

found their Oh something that makes that

stands out but solely yeah it's where

this belongs to this person like no

nobody dances like this guy you know

when somebody tells me like Oh ace you

know like I don't know I don't think I

dance like okay I suppose maybe because

I don't think too much about my own

dance I just enjoy the process always in

process and you know and I just there's

a just a genuine joy in dance but when

somebody comes to me and says oh man

like yeah like when you dance like I

know it's you like nobody dances like

you I mean like you bring that brings me

a joy and satisfaction because that's my

end goal I don't know if I'm if I'm

doing it you know and on to what level

you know but for me I want the freedom

of being me I want you know when I dance

I'm trying to just find me all the time

yeah you know and and it's a continual

thing because we're ever-changing we're

ever-growing you know like the me of

ninety-one should not be the me of now

mm-hmm

you know I should be a different me so

even even when I go out and dance today

I'm searching for my truth today who am

i today you know and just being open to

if that's

different you know I think for the most

part it's going to there's gonna be a

feel of who you are but but new aspects

of yourself yeah you know and I don't

know for me that that's what I

I thought about creativity as an artist

it's not to just hold on to you know to

find yourself but doesn't mean you have

to be the you of three years ago or last

week or you know like that person was

amazing at that time love it cherish it

and move on move on because you can't

ever recreate those moments those

moments were wonderful at that time but

if you're stuck there you know it's

never gonna be the same you know you can

do the same combination it's never gonna

be exactly the way it was at that moment

in time on that day and you know and

yeah I had to learn that a long time ago

too you know I had this some different

amazing moments you know that that just

came about and I tried to recreate them

and worse worse sessions ever just

because that moment had passed you know

and the moment I came to the realization

that you gotta let go you know and

understand that that was a beautiful

moment at that time but that is over

yeah and and trust like we talked about

on a DNA level that whatever your body

is telling you and wherever you're at at

that point in time

trust it go with it as long as you feel

you're not

imitating or copying somebody else you

you're kind of finding your way and

finding your truth for that day that's

where the beauty lies kind of embracing

the view of right now and moving with it

of course because I know buddy's just

gonna change and being a completely

different person but you can find

definitely new elements of yourself you

know if you're open to it and for me

that that's what makes you know

being an artist so much fun it is

finding these new parts of yourself like

every single day yeah yeah so if you

were to go back in time to the 91

version of you and tell that version of

you I guess some advice what would you

do what would that be oh god you know I

I'm not really sure about what I would

tell myself back then because I've

enjoyed the process the whole way you

announced observe you know like you mean

observe myself of old or observe you now

going back in time to see the 91 version

of you would you say anything or no or

you just observe or just well you know

it that's a double-edged sword too

because yeah it might change well you

know like for me I've enjoyed the

journey yeah the journey is fun it's all

about you know like it's all about the

journey like you know the beauty of

today like I've had so many amazing

moments throughout my life but I think

it's because I understand that I'm only

given today I don't like iived at this

point just because I woke up every

single morning and said well I still

love it so I'm gonna do it like that's

it

I've never in my wildest dreams would

have imagined that going on near 30

years that I'm still you know 45 years

old still busting still still breaking

you know stay still dance in period at

45 you know when I was a teenager you

know 16 year old you know a 16 year old

kid started we thought somebody who you

know busted for nine years was like whoa

at that he's so gee like that's cool

like nine years yeah like in here yeah

more than tripled that yeah you know and

[Music]

yeah like that's it's just crazy to even

think that that we would still be denser

and and

level like you know that that's you know

one of the things that me and storm were

talking about the other day

was the the joy of dancing still at high

level having high expectations for

ourselves and saying I never ever want

old man props like I'm sorry I dance

because when I dance you know like I do

the things I do I take pride in my dance

like I love the process but make no

mistake about it when I'm on a dance

floor with other dancers I want them to

understand that I'm a bad man yeah that

that when I do things that I do things

that that they can't do even younger

yeah like you know doing walks clothes

like you know certain Power Move

combinations that I can do it 45 that it

that some of the younger cats can do

cats don't do walks like me and Cujo

yeah yeah yeah they just don't it's it's

not the same the the west coast

merry-go-rounds Deadman's all the

different high level sky turtles

carousels whatever you want to call them

like all the different variations we

walk around that we glide around a room

with our body fully extended we're not

hopping in one place you know and I know

a lot of people they don't know they

don't understand you know and on some

level yeah it's weird and arrogant but

the walks that are out there are on an

elementary level in comparison to the

way that me and Cujo dueled is like oh

it's a lost art I think I mean a lot of

it absolutely it absolutely is and

people will never understand it until

until they try it when they when they

start down the journey of doing it the

way me and Cujo do it they understand

there they have a what that hell moment

life you know

one of the homies gastro from

Guadalajara he was down here in Los

Angeles dude is so strong super super

strong has amazing walks the way

everyone else does him mmm

hoppy well you know no problem knock it

out the box I started taking him under

my wing

you know Cujo was trying to show himself

and then he started showing up and

wanting to practice with me in Seoul I

took him under my wing and started to

teach him the way me and Cujo did do and

like I said can do it the way everyone

else does it like nobody's business and

his can hold his body straight out like

nobody's business very strong but

learning how to do it the right way the

way we do it West Coast walks he

struggled struggled struggled struggled

and he was like I'm so tired bro

thank god this is so hard bro like you

know like month you know good month

working with him regularly struggling

yeah and finally he started to get it at

the end but this was like like a regular

thing that I was working with him

imparting my knowledge telling him don't

put your hand here and get your hips

over here faster do this you know along

with all of his already previous

knowledge and he struggled with it and

he's starting to finally get it at the

end but then he had to go back to

Guadalajara and I told him practice

practice practice

because high level walks is not like

regular moves yeah like if I were to

associate it regular like most moves

that you get it it's like once you get

it you get it it's kind of like a

one-night stand with high-level walks

that's a marriage you're in a long-term

commitment you better keep at it because

she will get up and walk and leave

she will leave you and I told him this

about six months you know to a year like

between there went to vacation you know

when on vacation in Mexico was down

there and got a lotta met up with him

and his crew and he told me I'm so sorry

bro

I lost him like I didn't I didn't listen

to you I didn't practice them and

they're gone and so I told him okay you

know I'm gonna teach you again like you

know and we'll work at it this time

stick with it I have to see his account

to see where he's at but it just shows

it just it's an example of how just how

difficult high-level walks are the way

Cujo and I do them really are and I take

a lot of pride in that and I can still

mean Cujo both can do all of our walks

you know different combinations that

we've done from the past we can still do

them at a high level in our 40s yeah and

for me I take a lot of you know like the

moment I I can't dance the way I want to

dance

then maybe maybe I'm gonna stop I don't

know like I haven't gotten at that point

yet yeah you know but but I don't want

old man props you know I don't want

somebody to say oh man you should have

seen ace back in the days like oh like

you can't you can't tell can't see you

can't see it now you know but he used to

be really good yeah you know the thing

that brings me most joy is when a dancer

who doesn't even know me comes over to

me and says hey yeah like hey what's

your name like where are you from like

dude you're really good and then when I

tell them who I am and a little bit of

my history for them to have that you

know more like like I love that you know

because those props from a really good

dancer you mean more oh I mean you know

more times than not it's a really good

dancer you know somebody I say all that

guy's pretty good you know and then they

make their way over and reciprocate that

same love and admiration saying hey who

are you like you know when you walk over

to somebody that you just don't even

know and say I kind of have to know who

you are like I think highly enough of

your dance that I want to know who you

are and then you know then to find the

history later you know like and then of

course the admiration is much deeper

once they find out like well you're this

person you're a kudos teacher you're

this person's teacher you're four how

old are you yeah all 45 what you know

like like for me that is yeah there's a

satisfaction and enjoy because just as

an artist I want whoever it is it gives

me respect or respects what I do I want

it to be from a genuine place like if

it's not there I don't want it because

then that will feed by motivation to

work harder to get back to where I need

to be yeah like you know and there's you

know like I understand there's good play

people come from good places when

they're being nice but there's also

something that handicaps the other

person whether it be kids or girls or

whatever it might be

mm-hmm the reason why we've got into the

people who have gotten good it's because

there's there's a need of wanting to be

appreciated to be recognized to be

validated by others that they admire you

know there's a hunger you know not to

say people don't fulfill their own cup

by like you know being an artist but

they're I firmly believe that you know

and I think that that we all want to be

recognized by others we admire you know

we want to be validated and for that

person say that dude is good you know

like III really you know like what that

for the person I admire admires what I

do yeah Wow like okay that's you know

and that feeds our hunger that feeds our

flame you know so whatever it is I

always want it to come from a genuine

place you know and like I say means

storm we're laughing about that like

dude like I call it quits you know like

if I can't do what I do and and feel

good about my dance when I step on a

dance floor like I don't want anyone

giving me pity props I don't want

somebody saying oh that was you know

pretty good good job don't do it walk

away

yeah like oh you still got it yeah like

it's not that you still got it it's like

it never left it was always here and it

got better so that's that's what you're

going for

always I'm looking to grow I'm looking

to be a factor I'm looking to inspire

you know myself and others you know like

and I think a lot of really great

artists have this about themselves to

that they are their own biggest critic

yeah you know like yeah I know I like we

talked about having a vision you know

like I know what I want to do and I you

know it's something that that's been a

double-edged sword because I've always

been hard on myself to I could do

something incredible and it didn't work

out the way I wanted to and I kind of

walked away like walked out of the

circle like it wasn't amazing you know

we're where others are like you know

even pump you spoke about popo used to

tell me to he had to kind of help me

with that too yeah where he's like dude

what are you doing like you did

something amazing and you walked away

with your head down like he's like don't

that like you know play you know whether

what it would like nobody else knew that

you messed up like in your own head you

might have messed up yeah but nobody

else knew that I was like I'll tell you

that right now nobody else knew that the

only way they knew it is you walked away

with you

so that was you know that was something

that I'm good you break very precisely

to and so like I can imagine where you

meant to put your foot exactly in this

spot but you missed it by an inch and

you're like oh I messed up but literally

no one can tell that you didn't put it

an inch backwards where it was supposed

to be and you missed it so you'd get up

and go like oh crap I messed that up and

then they're like I don't know that was

crazy disappointed and that's you know

that that's kind of been my you know my

blessing and my curse because because

I'm always out there searching for my

own perfection it it pushes me I strive

you know I've worked I've always been a

worker like I said I had two left feet

you know people will see me they're like

what what do you mean you know but that

was terrible mm-hmm I was terrible I

worked for everything that I had I've

I've had to break down use trained use

my mind you know more than the average

dancer because I had to like I've always

had to break down yeah an understanding

of a step a combination of power move

body positioning like where I should be

at a certain point in time so when I'm

able to t like one I could a teacher

it's helped me to really be a good

teacher to others because I myself could

not do without having a full grasp or

understanding you understand the

intricacies of making them move yeah and

I you know I think you can make moves

work but I think for me where it's been

a blessing too is you know I've been

able to continue to grow and find more

efficient ways of doing things because I

just because I can do something doesn't

mean I feel like that's the only way and

that there's not a better way I'm always

searching to see if there's a better way

I'm always questioning myself like yeah

I feel it this way but I'm open to the

possibilities that I can do it better or

that there is a better way you know

because where I where I did something at

that point in time yeah it was effective

you know but yeah there's more you know

and we found a bunch of new ways whether

it be power moves or style of saying you

know what if you put your foot down

faster here you put this knee down you

know like and then we tried we're like

yeah that does work like dope and then

just a whole new range of possibilities

come in constantly you know so yeah it's

amazing man I love it well I think with

that being said we could probably in

this show we've been going for an hour

and 15 minutes already kind of time

flies by right yeah well yeah man I

appreciate you having me on you know

like just being able to speak about all

the possibilities and the culture and

our artistry mm-hmm you know cuz cuz

that's what we are you know I I always

appreciate the opportunities for to just

conversate ya know it's important to

kind of spread the ideas that we all

have and just put it out into the world

and see what other people have to say

about it and just you know I guess the

Zulu nation each one teach one is it's

important it's important in hip-hop to

do that well yeah it's it's going to you

know like we're only a moment in time we

are just a piece of of all of this so if

we keep it to ourselves where does all

that knowledge go after after we're done

after we leave you know like like I said

we're only promised today so even with

somebody who has good intentions oh

maybe later I'll get around to it you

know like they're not promised that time

so you know yeah being able to share

with each other is a vital part of any

society yeah and as we said this dance

hip hop is still in its infancy in a way

and that it you know there's so much

history that's you know beyond us so

it's good to get these ideas out now and

just because you know we don't know

where the scenes gonna go from here and

I mean it's it's it's exciting to see

what is in store for the future and

definitely yeah so well thank you for

coming on do you have any last-minute

shoutouts or anything you want to say or

any plugs or anything which oh well just

you know the guys you know my brothers

whether it be master movements soul

control you know my my various

inspirations around the world you know

my teacher airnow Coloma you know like

forgiving me just an opportunity you

know and even when he sees me now you

know he says and you were like the last

person I ever would have thought would

have made hey you know yeah an impact

but look II look at you after all these

years you know but but nobody can

measure your heart your desire your play

your you know and many of the great

dancers I see around the world started

with similar themes to where it was hard

for them at the beginning but nobody can

measure their heart so you know if you

have a want for something do it for you

you know in the end always do it for you

and have fun doing it the whole way

through don't let anyone tell you what

you can or

do I had that from the very beginning

and many others have also we can do

whatever we put our mind to and I won't

have fun along the way here to here

alright thanks you guys for listening

[Music]

[Music]

you