Marc Tyler Nobleman: Finding and Writing Untold Stories

CCIRA Literacy Conversations

00:00:00 Molly Rauh
Hello and welcome back to this CCIRA Literacy Conversations podcast. I'm your host Molly Rauh with my co-host Jessica Rickert. Today's podcast features, Marc Tyler Nobleman.

00:00:14 Jessica Rickert
Marc's work centers around writing fiction and nonfiction books for young people, Mark shares how he writes books that grab an interest people will welcome. Mark we're so excited to chat with you tonight. Could you start by telling us a little bit about your background?

00:00:34 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, thanks for having me. And I am very excited to be making my return to CCIRA. It's either my third or my fourth; I can double check that before I get there. So I am an author of books for young people. I've been doing this for most of my adult life. I've written both nonfiction and fiction. My main criteria is I want to write books that grab your attention. I want to tell....If it's nonfiction, I want to tell an Untold Story, or at least what I hope will be an untold story to most readers. And if it's fiction, I just want to surprise you. I wanted to be funny, or just feel fresh to you in some way, and something that you that might grab you just from a quick, quick little glimpse, or a quick initial explanation, not a deep dive. But just I want to grab people right away.

00:01:25 Jessica Rickert
So when did this start? When did you start writing?

00:01:29 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, same time as everybody when I was a tiny person, but I liked it at the time, unlike a lot of my peers. And so I would write short stories. I know I did that in high school, so that might be the earliest I can say definitively. And in college, I knew I wanted to become some kind of a professional writer. It didn't know what. And I got out of school, and I stumbled into being a children's book author that was not on my agenda. Not that I was against it. I just didn't think of it. And here I am. All these years later, I'm very happy with that. I mean, it's expanded into a variety of types of writing, but that is my that is, my focus really is writing for young people. And and there are adults, their loved ones who are adults, their parents, their teachers.

00:02:15 Molly Rauh
Well, and you and I have already... So people who can't see, he and I share the love of comics. And so I'm kind of curious. One of your more nonfiction stories is about the sort of originally unknown second co-creator of Batman. How did you get into that story?

00:02:42 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Yes.

00:02:42 Molly Rauh
How do you spell across that? Where does that come from?

00:02:45 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, do we do? Should I explain to who our listeners who Batman is, or do you think they already know? They probably...

00:02:53 Molly Rauh
I hope they know

00:02:54 Marc Tyler Nobleman
They probably know. Let's give them that benefit of the doubt. So that is my big story. I will be talking about that in person. I don't want to spill the beans too much on that. But I'll answer your question, which doesn't spill the beans, which is that I was a comic book reader since I was in, again, a tiny person. And back then it wasn't cool. Now it's cool now anyone can do it, now, there's no judgment, but back then it was not exactly mainstream, or, you know, widely accepted. In fact, you know, when I was in, when I was in grade school to high school, I think there were only two or three mainstream superhero movies in that entire 10 or 12 year stretch. Now there's two or three a week, just to put it in perspective. You know, there were the Superman movies. And then at the very end of high school, the Batman movie came out. Those are the main ones. And then there was a couple lesser ones. So it really wasn't something that was, you know, widely accepted. And I, as a as a person who became a writer, I started to pay attention not only to the fictional side, but to who created these characters. And I, I remember that on my 16th birthday. The cover of Time Magazine was Superman's 50th birthday, and it talked about his creators. So I was a sixteen-year-old reading Time magazine in my school library, you know, having an epiphany that yeah, these characters came from somewhere, and I was interested in that. So I don't know exactly when I learned about the story behind Batman, but I know it was not in college. It was after that. Because in college, I proof that I did not know about The Unsung co-creator, because there's not my proudest moment, but I'm just gonna be honest with you, because you're all adults, some of my friends and I would crank call each other each other, not strangers. And this is back in the answering machine days. So our goal was to just fill out the tape. Just talk until we got cut off. So I would just ram- We would all just ramble. You know, I would just pick up a book and start reading. I would tell some story from my childhood. I am. One of the stories I told was this story began Batman, and all I mentioned was Bob Kane, the artist, the man who was credited on Batman at the time, the only person. I didn't mention Bill Finger. So as as late as college, I had never heard of this man who then end up becoming the subject of my most, I think, my most popular book and a huge part of my life, which is, again, a story that I'll tell in great detail at the conference. But you know, just the point being that, you know, you can't, as we I'll say, as adults, and as teachers and Educators can't believe everything you read. Got to look further, you might be even if it's something as huge as Batman, maybe even, especially if it's something as huge as Batman, you've got to know your source. You've got a double check. Make sure you're getting the true story you might be, you know, pulling the wool over your eyes.

00:05:39 Molly Rauh
Now, you just made me more curious. There's no answer.

00:05:41 Marc Tyler Nobleman
That's the goal right?

00:05:42 Molly Rauh
I'm gonna have to come see you at the conference, so I can get more info.

00:05:44 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Please, do. That's what I want. I want a big group on a big, huge attendance.

00:05:50 Molly Rauh
Okay, so, thinking more about because, you know, we have teachers here. And so they're trying to inspire their own next generation of authors. In terms of process, how do you go about writing a book? Like what? What steps do you work through?

00:06:11 Marc Tyler Nobleman
So if it's fiction, I like to try to sketch out the arc of the story in advance. Now you're not locked in, but it helps me to have guideposts. And when I teach creative writing to kids in the summer and at various times during the year and I always tell them that you, I recommend that you do that, but don't feel beholden to it. You know, if your writing and your story goes in another Direction, that's okay, you're not breaking a law or a rule, but it does help to have that outline, especially, I think, the ending, because I really think with fiction, it's and I think it's important at least it helps me to have some sense of your destination so that you get there and an exciting way. I talk about it with kids by saying, if you know, there's let's say it's a Sunday, and your family is all hanging out, looking for something to do. Someone in your family might say, let's go get ice cream, but you know, we're not going to go straight there. We're going to take the scenic route. Another person might say, let's just get in the car and drive, and who knows where we'll end up. So in one, in case you've got a destination which you might get excited about, and then you take a roundabout way to get there, because that's fun in another, you're excited because you don't know what at all where you're going. So it's just one of the two, but I just prefer knowing that we're going to get ice cream at the end. That's how I like to write that I know that's where we're going. Now with nonfiction. It just starts with just the, the, the, you know, the spark of the electricity running up my spine. I mean, I read something, I hear something that I feel is so enticing and even better again, if it hasn't been done before, and it's own book. So most of my nonfiction in recent years, it's that category. Its if given my know some of the story, of course, but it hasn't been the focus of its own book. And so I love that I love feeling like I'm walking through the forest by myself. No one else is looking for mushrooms or whatever you're foraging for. You're the only one you're going to get all the best spoils. And I also just love the excitement that I see on faces of both kids and adults want to telling a story that that is new for them. So, you know, with all no love loss to Rosa Parks and Babe Ruth. And, you know, any number of other textbook names that get tons of picture books about them all deserve it. Muhammad, Ali. And, well, a lot of the presidents are falling out of favor these days. But, you know, you know who I'm talking to. Ruth Bader Ginsburg. All these people have multiple picture books by now, and they deserve them. But I want to I want to be one of the people that writes about someone that you don't really know. So that, to me, is just it's a little riskier as some some publisher. Some editors don't want to work on books that aren't pre-sold. But for me, it's the only way forward. I just want to be fulfilled by the read, the process. So with fiction, I have to sketch it out a bit with nonfiction. I just have that spark, and I just download as much as I can about the topic. And then I go through and it's fun, because then you go through and pick out the kid-friendly parts. The parts that you know are going to excite kids. It might not be them. You know, the linear story from. I mean, it will be linear when it's done, but, you know, you might be missing big moments that are not appropriate or interesting for kids. You still have to make it, you know, a cohesive whole. So that's finest. Yet. What are the pieces of this that work best for my audience?

00:09:36 Jessica Rickert
And how, like, what resources, do you have "go to" resources when you're researching for those non-fiction books?

00:09:45 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Yeah, I just use Wikipedia exclusively. I basically just rewrite Wikipedia articles and act like its original. Wait. You're going to share this with other people. (Jessica laughs) Good? Yeah. Now, well, because I'm trying to do these stories that are more or less Untold. Oftentimes I can't rely on just the internet or books, because again, there's stuff out there that's never been documented. So a lot of the work I've done has been about people that are either still alive, or people who died recently enough that there are people still alive who knew them. So I get original interviews with those people, and sometimes original documents, you know, private documents letters, or, you know, Vital Records or so on that helped fill in the story, never been published in. If they're on the Internet, it's often because I put them there. Now, after, after I do the book, I put some of the research online share the wealth, and you know, for the next person who might want to write about that. Of course, I do use the internet, and I do use books as well, but I'm more excited about these, you know, these Quests for the things that aren't as easy to find, and sometimes you don't get some anywhere. I mean, right now, I'm working on a book where there are two main true story, two main character, two main figures. They're both still alive. The story happened in the 70s. One of them gave me a lovely two hour interview so far. And the other one I I just reached out today to this person's family, but I've been told, don't expect this person to participate for reasons that will become clear when this, when the topic is revealed, but so I may not get that, but I'm going to carry anyways and just write based on what's already been documented, maybe without family. But again, some of the stuff I've written is by about people that are long dead. So I'm never. There's not any opportunity to talk to those people. So it can be done without talking to the people involved. It's just sweeter for me if I can get their buy-in and get there on, you know, the previously Untold Story.

00:11:43 Molly Rauh
Thinking about just interviewing in general, I know that sometimes that's a challenge to ask kids to do. So, what are some of your tips for reaching out to someone and kind of asking for their time and their story and their information?

00:11:59 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Yeah, well, I wish I was a little kid asking because who said, can say no to a little kid, right? That would that would be an advantage, but I get it. Yeah, it is an important skill, even if you don't become a writer. It's just important to know how to ask questions of other people. being appropriate, but, you know, getting the story, you know, and how to handle people that are difficult or mysterious, or whatever. So that is a great skill. I mean, for kids that are doing that for school, I mean, I did will depend on the assignment. But let's say they don't have a specific number of questions to ask, maybe just start with five something that seems manageable and not overwhelming. And if you can ask them to, don't think of it like an assignment. But think of it like, you're just curious, what do you? What do you? What would you want to know about? Someone kids are not. They're very curious. But, I mean, I have two kids of my own, and sometimes they just don't, you know, the they don't articulate what they want to know, and just they just they give up before they even start. So if you tell them just, you know, think about what something you want to ask someone that you think that person is never talked about, or wouldn't tell you without you asking, or just try to make it a little bit more of a game and a mystery like can you be the one to crack the code? Can you get this person to tell you about his childhood when she never talked about before? I don't know, make it a little bit more of a challenge. I haven't done that specifically with kids, but, you know, working on interview techniques. But you know, you never, you just have to keep trying. If someone's I don't know if I would emphasize this with kids. But when people say no to me, I don't, I don't hear the word no when it comes to asking for an interview that's not talking about other types of consent, but I will keep trying to get the story. And I actually put a bit of a burden on their shoulders saying, you might be the only person who can share this information. So for the you know, for posterity, for scholarship, I hope that you'll you'll talk about it, and that doesn't always work, but I am not gonna let it go without trying. It's just too important. I've had people that have died that I know know interesting things about my topics, but they wouldn't tell me. So I, you know, I don't want I want to limit, mitigate that as much as possible. So basically, like we tell kids, you know, there's no such thing as a dumb question. Ask whatever is of interest to you.

00:14:10 Molly Rauh
So a little perseverance is valuable there too. Let's see, there's so so many different directions I could go. So I'm also curious, you know, just about. Obviously comic books have been a passion that informed a couple books. But what are some of your interests outside of writing outside of, you know, that career path that inspire you as a writer, or just help you kind of feel well-rounded and give you that energy and inspiration to keep writing?

00:14:52 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, I mean, it's nothing original to say that I love reading, and I do. And I love running, and I can't say that it has a direct correlation to writing. But there are a lot of people that would compare writing to running because they're both typically solitary. And I also, you know, as a writer, I don't want to be the person of a person who's just at a desk in a room all day, even before covid. I wanted to get out and get some air. And so that that's a happy place for me. I. There's a trail that picks up right around the corner from our house. And it's might like it's like a second home for me to go there and listen to music and not, you know, a lot of people listen to podcasts when they run or commut or all that. But I'm so much with words all the time when I'm working, that when I run, I listen to music. I give myself a chance, because I don't have a commute. I don't drive anywhere everyday guaranteed. So that's my time to just listen to music and relax and get some, some fresh air. And I've actually got a couple book ideas while I've been running; nothing that's sold yet. But I don't know if the running is a help or a hindrance. But yeah, when you're out there, your head clears, and you can think of things and... And I have, as I mentioned, two kids. I love spending time with my family. They're both teenagers now. So it's not always my choice anymore. Spend time with them. I have to be penciled in or well, you know, typed in. And as I mentioned, I love music I love especially 80s music. I could do a whole talk on that, but I don't think anybody would show up. Maybe that's another conference. So those are my things running, music, family.

00:16:36 Molly Rauh
All right, I get that like running, I think, is I don't know, it's cathartic. It just helps you, you know, I, yeah, I think it's stimulating for ideas. Yeah. So no, no podcast, no words, music only.

00:16:51 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Okay, yeah, they're, we're a dying breed or so much so much pressure to listen to podcasts these days.

00:16:58 Molly Rauh
I know. Well, I did the podcasting for a while, but even on my commute, I don't listen to podcasts anymore. I do listen to audio books. My commute is for audiobooks. So since you said reading which, you know, you said, not unique, which is true. Every time we talk to authors, they always have books that they love. So what are some of your favorite authors, or favorite books, especially when you were younger, that have kind of led you to have the passion you have for reading and writing?

00:17:28 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, some of these may not be so original either, but Where the Wild Things Are, which each, when I revisited it as an adult, reading it to my own kids, I was really blown away about how beautifully written is. It's not just this memorable visual journey, but the way he wrote it was so so wonderful. And it's only 10 sentences, which is a weird thing to realize as an adult, I love a novel called the mouse in the motorcycle. By Beverly Cleary, who just passed away. I think it was last year. And I loved a book that is not well-known. It's called David and the Phoenix. Have you heard of that? By any chance? It wasn't a big, you know, classic book, although since I've been to, I mean, over the years I've blogged about it and talked about it in various ways. And I know a lot of people come out of the woodwork and say, I totally remember that book. That was a big favorite of mine. But again, it never became a classic. So that was a novel written in 1957 by a man named Edward Ormondroyd, who's still alive at 96 and he's a friend, I guess you could say, I did reach out to him at one point, interview him for my blog. And I met him in person. So that was a really fulfilling moment, to meet someone that inspired me as it, not only as a fan to an author, but as peers. I mean, because I do that now too. And he was very gracious and very interesting, and that he had never met. You'd never done anything that authors today do. He'd never spoken at a conference. He'd never done a book signing. He never did a school visit, they just didn't he his that this book was published in 1957. It wasn't - those things were in all standard at. Certainly not school visits, I would imagine. So that was interesting, meet an author who has a totally different experience as a children's author than I have. So those are three of my favorites as a kid. Yeah, those are three of my favorites.

00:19:21 Jessica Rickert
What about for your own books that you've written? Do you have some favorites, both fiction and nonfiction that you love more than other book, your other books?

00:19:33 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Well, everything I've done in the last ten or twelve years totally overrides everything I did before that not that they weren't books of Merit of some kind. I mean, I put my heart into those two, but what I've been doing recently are all things that topics that I hand pick. And before that, I was sometimes doing books based on other people's suggestions, or, you know, not not coming to it on my own. So, of all my books, and I mean my Batman book is my favorite in the sense that it became more than a book. And again, I don't want to teach just enough to get people to show up. It's it started off as a book, and it became a mission. And it became a very big mission that lasted many years, so that that's a category unto itself. And then, you know, the others I love in different ways too, they all like, with everything that we do, they have their, you know, they conjure different, you know, moments of your life, or in my case, I think about some of the struggles that each one involved, and what I had to try to overcome to get the book published, because nothing's come easy for me with writing, which is fine. If it's easy, it's it's boring. But it isn't like I've written a book and then the next day, someone says, I want that like it's taken a while for me, a lot of my work. And but again, because it's I'm, I think it's because I'm choosing topics that they feel are going to be a harder sell. And I tell them, well, that's what I'm here for. I'm not just going to write it and then go on a run and never come back. I'm going to help you sell it and promote it, and that's why I do conferences. That's why I go to schools. I want people to, you know, enjoy the story the way I did I wouldn't do all this work, and then let it float off, you know, on its own. So yeah, the Batman book would take first place. And then a lot of the recent ones would be in a tie for second.

00:21:27 Molly Rauh
So, thinking about that, you like comics? So we've asked about books, but what are some of your favorite Comics? Or even graphic novels? Because like you and I have mentioned there, you know, once upon a time, it wasn't cool to be into comics. But now, like there's not that stigma around that. So maybe share some of your favorites, some newer things that are being printed and published that kids might get their hands on, or that teachers might get hands on, because I certainly like some adult comics that I would never give to kids. And I've also had some comics that, like as soon as I'm done reading, I bring into the classroom to a particular kid. And I'm like, you have to read this. Here's the next one. What are some of your favorite? Well, a couple of graphic novels I've read recently that I loved were "Flamer" by Mike Curato, which is biographical and "New kid". Of course, I by Jerry Craft. I really liked. I don't read tons of graphic novels by you know, it's not I'm not. I don't specifically gravitate towards those. I just gravitate towards a good book, whether it's graphic novel, you know, pros or whatnot. Another one I read this summer that I thought was great was "Kent State." It's a new. It's

00:22:47 Molly Rauh
the newest book by a guy named Derf Backderf And it's, it's, it's his telling of the Kent State, the Ohio, you know, the, the Four Dead in Ohio story. And I knew almost nothing about that, even though I knew, ooh, that I know. I mean, I know of the song I know of the incident, but I couldn't have told you what it was about. And he just does a masterful job of weaving these four individuals stories into one tragic, overarching story. And then as far as traditional comics I mean, I grew up on I mean, being a huge fan of I'm a DC guy. As you can imagine, based on Batman. My favorites were Justice League because I like groups. I like to see how groups work together, like to see how groups split up to tackle different issues, both in superhero comics and in life. I also liked it a team-up comic called "The Brave and the Bold," which was Batman, plus somebody else every issue. And there was another one of DC Comics presents, which was Superman, plus someone else. And there are there are there are collected editions of those. I would recommend them for teachers with kids, because comics these days, the the there are still comics produced for elementary age kids. But a lot of the main characters are quite dark. Even Superman. I mean, a lot of the stories are quite sophisticated, quite dark. So not the same way when we were kids, where it was all kind of for everybody. So if you go back to the stuff that was done in the 70s and 80s, it's you know, it's a bit dated a little. It's a little dated. But I think for kids that like superheroes, they might really like it. You know, that sometimes it's a one-and-done story. It's you not to read 20 issues to get a full story. You can read one, which I think for reluctant readers is a little bit more accessible. Nowadays, you know, everything's an arc. You know, it's a it's 8 issue Arc, or a ten issue arc because they want to. They're creating these stories to be bound and sold as graphic novel so they can sell them online and easier with, you know, the newsstand business of buying this individual issue is, unfortunately, I don't think going to be around for much longer. Once people our age phase-out, they're not going to do it for the next generation. They're not buying comics generally. So, and then, of course, there's all the, you know, the ones that don't need my help. You know, there's there's the Raina, you know, Telgemeier books to Cece Bell, and they're doing great things, and kids know them already. So they don't need, you know, like them. But those are great too.

00:25:19 Jessica Rickert
I have a question not being a connoisseur of comic books, and only just watching the movies which I know is probably horrible for you two. Do you have a favorite superhero?

00:25:32 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Superman. So it's again, it's there's this dichotomy throughout my whole childhood, you know, cool and uncool. So Superman uncool, Batman cool. DC uncool, Marvel cool. Han Solo cool, Luke Skywalker, uncool. You know, Fonzie, cool, Richie Cunningham uncool. I always like the uncle ones, except I did like Han Solo better than Luke. But for the most of the most of, those examples I was on the less cool side. So yeah.

00:26:09 Molly Rauh
All right, you're going to have to explain that one 'cause I have my reasons why I would pick Batman over Superman. So why Superman? Because, no I hardcore disagree with you on that one.

00:26:20 Marc Tyler Nobleman
So do most kids. I I think it's, so I mean, a lot of it is just, you know, who you meet first. And he, I remember being introduced to Superman. It feels like first. But I also like, I mean, hit, you know, the Superman that I fell in love with is doesn't exist anymore. In a way. You know, he was good for good sake. There wasn't. There was no complexity to it. Of course, you know, our culture at the moment, and probably forever more is is just much more sensitive to all kinds of Injustice and differences, and, you know, sent being sensitive to as much as possible in every direction which those are certainly greatness there. Superman, you know, used to just you just you just had you just trusted the guy to do the right thing no matter what. And now it's just not as not as black and white. So I still love him, but I think it's just getting more complicated to be Superman than it used to be. And I love Batman too, obviously I spent a whole bunch of my life on him too. But I like Superman, just seems they both seem like loners. And I think I always was I always was drawn to that. Now they both have, well now they're both. It's not good. You know, things evolve. Now, they're - Superman's married with a son. And Batman has Catwoman. But you know, when I was growing up, they were loners and I that appealed to me to that they would do the right thing not to get tons of friends and to get paid or praise, but just because it was the right thing and that really resonated with me as a kid and helped inspire me to write Boys of Steel, my Superman book. That notion of just do the right thing, even if you don't get all this attention for it, or jobs and money, or your name on a big, you know, sign or plaque, or, you know, something like that. You're just doing it because, you know, in your heart, that's what you should do. And I like that about Superman. And Batman did it too. But it was just that was Superman's whole whole essence.

00:28:21 Molly Rauh
All right, that's a fair argument. That's maybe the best argument for Superman I've ever heard. So, yeah, I might, I might like him a little better than I did a minute ago.

00:28:31 Marc Tyler Nobleman
What's your Batman take?

00:28:33 Molly Rauh
Well, for me, it's it's a very simple piece of superpowers and not having superpowers. I like Batman because theoretically, like he is a regular human being. Yes, he's empowered by, you know, money and access to this technology. But, you know, I kind of liked that he was an ordinary human being. Who just, you know, used innovations, and you know his own personal sort of drive to become a superhero.

00:29:07 Marc Tyler Nobleman
I want to see if I can find. I saved this tweet that for me, really summarized Superman in a new way. But probably I knew it all along innately. So I love this. Superman stories aren't a fantasy about how good it would be to have power. they're a fantasy about what it would be like if someone with power was good. So giving credit where credit's due. This is I don't even know who this is. But the it's a someone on Twitter named Ian McIntyre. So I just love that that he could do whatever he wants. I mean, talk people talk about Batman that you know, look what he's doing with no power. But there's a flip side. Look what Superman is not doing with power.

00:29:50 Molly Rauh
I like that take that's kind of cool, that almost like I might have to pull that into an essential question, because I teach history and like, you know, we just finished some industrial like Gilded Age, Progressive Era, kind of stuff. And a big piece of that was looking at corruption. And so thinking about, like people with power, you know, do they do they always abuse it? Or are there people who use it for good? And so thinking of, yeah, yeah, well, I can send that to you.

00:30:25 Jessica Rickert
I just never really, like, you guys have opened my eyes to there's deeper and more complex things than just like the movies that I go to like looking. I'm definitely going to look at superheroes differently now. At a deep audio cuts out.

00:30:43 Marc Tyler Nobleman
They're not for everybody.

00:30:45 Molly Rauh
Yeah, they're not for everybody, but I, you know, anybody I think, who's into comics, realizes that the majority of your comics, whether it's super hero stories or anything else, they're really human stories. They're looking at the human condition and looking at human motivations. And so the social scientist in me always loves them, because they're really just kind of who are we at our core? And, you know, what are we capable of in good and bad ways?

00:31:14 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Yeah.

00:31:18 Jessica Rickert
Well. Are there any other books that you want to highlight for teachers that might be listening, that you think would be good for them to share with their students? I know you have a lot of books, but a couple that, oh, you should try this one or try this one

00:31:33 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Sure. So I wrote a book called "Fairy Spell," which is a true story about two girls in World War One era England who went into the woods one day with a camera. And this was, again, World War 1 era. So this was not camera like anything we've seen. And they came back with only one photo, which one of their fathers developed in the dark room in their house. And that photo revealed one of the two girls with what they said were for fairies. And this kicked off a mystery that lasted for the rest of their lives. So they were one of them was only nine, and one was 16 and they didn't reveal the full truth about what really happened that day in the woods until they were in their 80s. So what I love about this story level out of things about I love it. It's about two girls. I love that it's about two girls that have agency. They're driving the story I love. I can't reveal it because it would spoil the book. But when they end up telling more of what happened later in life, I love their reason for not telling it sooner. So at first I thought maybe there'd be some. Maybe I'd get some pushback that I'm writing a book about liars. I don't want to say what they said that was true and not true. They said things that - I'm going to say this so I don't spoil the whole thing. At the end, there's they have a different -they say something different than each other. Their story was the same for most of those years. But then at the end, they diverge. So there is some. There is some untruth in it. But there's also some truth. And I love how it's just a new way of looking at the truth. And what isn't what we, how we classify truth and what we, how we judge people that don't tell the truth. You know, it's not, they don't lie for the same reason with the same effect. So I love that. And it also it's become, you know, very relevant with respect to fake news. I didn't write it because of that, but it is a great book to use to help children start to discern, you know, the importance of, again, not believing everything you read on at face value and learning how to verify things on the especially on the internet, whether they're true or not, or whether they need more, you know, more investigation. So that's a great book for that. And apparently, that's what a lot of people use it for. And there are a lot of lessons these days about that which is so important, teaching our kids how to be internet savvy, and how to not question everything to the point that you are a conspiracy theorist. But just you have a healthy skepticism about things so that you use your brain. And when I say in the book, you know, some people decry the internet saying that it makes us think less. I think it has to, really, it's making us think more. You really need to, like, I just said, don't take the first- and I, you know, I tell my kids, we all tell kids. Now, you know, the last couple of years, when you Google something, Google has a little box at the very top. It's in a box the to make you think like that's the definitive be-all-end-all answer. So I tell my kids, well, view, are you even looking at the source of that? And just because Google says it's true doesn't mean it is. So that book is helpful, I think with that topic. And then I wrote another book that's called "Thirty Minutes Over Oregon," so closer to your side of the country. And that's a true story out of WWII about a Japanese pilot named Nobuo who did something that no one before him, or since luckily has done. He became the only person in history to bomb the United States mainland from a plane. And the reason that most people have never heard this is because those bombs did not kill anyone, didn't even hurt anyone. They hit the forest outside of a town called Brookings. So maybe a couple squirrels bit it, but no humans. And because of that, it's not a World War. Two story that we teach it wasn't a turning point, but that's why I love it. It's a smaller story with a great famous first that is not really famous. And then this emotional core about this pilot, how this act impacted him later in life. So it's a great story about how enemies can become friends. I don't want to say too much, but he does come back to America after the war. And it's about something that you don't see in picture books. Too much least. I haven't seen it in non-fiction picture books, and that is redemption. This the idea of redemption, most picture books, that folk that are biographical. They follow the same arc. They start in someone's childhood. The child has a dream. The child tries and fails multiple times. And eventually the book ends with this person becoming the famous person that we all know. Again, the you know, with Bader Ginsburg or Babe Ruth, who met those I don't need to name famous people, you all know them, but that's and that's fine. But I don't. I prefer different kinds of stories. So I prefer story that's not quite as predictable where maybe they mean the Batman story is about a guy that basically opposite success. And then the ending is that he failed. So it's kind of a bummer, but that's life sometimes, and people we need to tell kids that you did a great thing. We shouldn't. He should be honored for it. But in the end, he didn't really benefit from it. And it was a sad story. And that's okay. It's okay to have a sad story. So the 30 minutes of Oregon book is a great story about Redemption about how I mean. Now it's especially, I think, a topic in the news and in life is about second chances. I mean, people are, you know, I see a lot of people that are not given a second chance. They misspeak. They something comes up from their past from sometimes even as young as being a teenager. And that completely changes the entire trajectory of their adult life. And there are times where, you know, second chances are definitely less viable. But I think for a lot of these cases, they're not in. This is a story about that. In today's world, you know, this man's story would he would have not been given a second chance, and he would have been a villain for the rest of his life. So I love this idea of, you know, seeing them at a human level. In this case, he was doing something during war, and you don't excuse that. But it was a war, and everyone was doing things that they would prefer not to be doing. And he did spend a lot of years trying to atone for that and show his true nature, and so reconciliation, redemption, very powerful, very powerful ideas. That, again, you don't see that often in - at least, I don't see them in picture books. I hope they're out there. I just haven't seen them myself. So those two, I think, really help with a lot of different levels of lessons in classrooms character development. And of course, the news thing is more, you know, practical skill.

00:38:23 Molly Rauh
I love that. I think I know what books I'm picking up next, and hopefully I can get through them before. Maybe I hit some units where I could use those in my classes, because, you know, again, I'm a history teacher. I can totally use those.

00:38:40 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Thank you.

00:38:41 Molly Rauh
So we're at that point where we're some of your heroes

00:38:49 Marc Tyler Nobleman
Heroes in general. Or...

00:38:51 Molly Rauh
Well, certainly educational heroes, if you have them. But if you want to go a different route and just focus on anybody who's inspired you, who is your hero in what you do, you can go broader if that suits you better. Sure, well, I can do a two-in-one. I can do a personal hero and an educator here, which is my mom, who was a teacher before I was born. So I ruin that. She gave up when I came along, but she is just she's had a really, really challenging life for different reasons. But you turned out to be the sweetest mom. I mean, except for your two moms of all time. And with no, with no guidance, she, you know, she didn't have a loving upbringing where she had something

00:39:40 Molly Rauh
to learn from. I don't know where she gets it from. And and she was also someone that you know, helped shape my creative side When We Were Young, my sister and I, my mother would not give us coloring books, because she felt we should start with a blank page that we should create from nothing. And so after a while, I think we wore down a bit, and as long as we still Drew on blank pages as well, but she didn't want us to be given someone else's work and then fill it in. And she also nudged me to be that she saw that I could be a writer before I did, which is typical mom. You know, she knew that I what I was good at, or what I had an aptitude for, and probably what I like, even though I didn't realize it. And she nudged me that way. And then again, as this is going to be no surprise about a guy who liked Superman Richie Cunningham, DC Comics better than there are opposite, which is that I have a lot of teachers that not only were inspirational for me, I'm still in touch with. I mean, most people I know if they're in touch with anyone, it's just one teacher I'm in touch with. I mean, not regular touch, but I have emails and reach out on, and I would say, on a, you know, somewhat regular basis to say hi to a number of teachers. So and you know, sometimes it's very vague why they resonate with me, but they must they must have helped shape me. I can't always figure out why I'm so drawn to them still, but a couple in particular are you no, are you know were formidable, or not formidable, formative, or probably formidable too, formative for me. And I love that because they are so that such a thankless job for so many and I it just three. It's very gratifying to, you know, all these years later, to just have this relationship so that they know that they mattered to me and probably to others that don't don't don't all right, as you know, aren't as obsessive about these things as I am, reaching out keeping in touch. So that means a lot to me for teachers that I had that had an impact for them to know that they did even your in my old age.

00:41:47 Jessica Rickert
I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining us. We're all definitely going to have to check out so many more books. I loved your cliffhangers. And if you have not registered for Marc Tyler, Nobleman's sessions yet, now you got to go find out about the Batman story too. So thank you for joining us. And we look forward to seeing you in February at CCIRA.

00:42:13 Marc Tyler Nobleman
I can't wait. Thank you so much for your time. And I look forward to seeing you both in person.

00:42:19 Molly Rauh
Thanks for listening to CCIRA Literacy Conversations podcast. To find out more about CCIRA go to CCIRA.org. On CCIRA.org, you can join as a member, or find great resources like our professional development blog, which posts every Tuesday and has a variety of guest writers on an awesome selection of topics. CCIRA is a professional organization of educators and community members is dedicated to the promotion and advancement of literacy. We also have a Twitter account @ColoradoReading. You can find us on Instagram at CCIRA_ColoradReading. Or you can find us on Facebook, where we also have a members only group that we're trying to build. And our Facebook account is CCIRA Colorado Reading. We'd love to hear more from you. And again, if you're looking for new content, please send any questions or things you'd be interested in seeing from ccir a to ccir a video at gmailcom. Thanks for listening and have a great week.