Both Sides of the Desk - Episode 3: Womble Bond Dickinson

Both Sides of the Desk

Brought to you by Newcastle Helix.

Both Sides of the Desk. One boss. One employee. Talk work culture.

In this episode, host Charlie Charlton brings together two key players from the international law firm Womble Bond Dickinson. Partner Ian Atkinson joins Legal Director-turned-Salaried Partner Francesca Hodgson to discuss how the legal industry is changing, including practical ways to encourage a diverse, sustainable workforce.
They examine the various ways to engineer social mobility and to bring together a hybrid workforce under shared values. This includes the transformative impact of investing in a building where the best office space isn't for Partners' offices but for a staff canteen.

For Francesca, there are two ladders to climb: navigating her career in law with a working-class background, and the shift to Partner, which is a male-dominated position. That's despite way more women than men choosing a career in law.

While Ian’s upbringing is different, he still understands the importance of sourcing talent from all walks of life. He shares how WBD achieves this through contextualised recruitment, and follows it up with flexible working patterns that work alongside clients' needs.

Listen to Charlie, Francesca, and Ian as they tackle some tricky topics.

CREDITS:

In conversation: Ian Atkinson & Francesca Hodgson - Womble Bond Dickinson

Producer/Presenter/Editor: Charlie Charlton

Camera/Director: Chris Taylor

Camera/Editor: Jordan McDonald

Sound Producer: Andy Bell, Blast Studios

Social Producer: Natalie Eminae, OCOCO

Media Exec Producers: Newcastle Helix Partnership + John Seager

In collaboration with Di Gates, Connection Heroes

Filmed on location in The Lumen Building, Newcastle Helix Big thanks to the whole community of the Helix Innovation District in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England.

You can also see Charlie Charlton and her guests in action:

https://www.youtube.com/@newcastlehelix2403
FURTHER READING:

The Law Society: Building a more caring legal industry

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/hr-and-people-management/building-a-more-caring-legal-industry

Solicitor’s Regulation Authority: Diversity in law firms' workforce

https://www.sra.org.uk/sra/equality-diversity/diversity-profession/diverse-legal-profession/

Law Gazette: Women make up 37% of law firm partners, new SRA figures show

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/women-make-up-37-of-law-firm-partners-new-sra-figures-show/5118209.article

Connect with Newcastle Helix:

• Website: https://www.newcastlehelix.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newcastle-helix/
• X: https://x.com/newcastlehelix
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newcastlehelix/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newcastlehelix/
• Email: [e-mail]

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Kapitler

1. Intro from Charlie Charlton (00:00:00)

2. Equal opportunities in the legal profession: Francesca shares the challenges people like her face when transitioning from the North East to study somewhere like Oxford and eventually enter the law profession. (00:00:46)

3. Social codes: Charlie poses the question of social mobility in the legal world: what do people like Francesca have to navigate? (00:03:25)

4. Talking the talk: Francesca notes that 80-90% of the job is actually dealing with people, making these skills invaluable to those in the legal sector. (00:04:12)

5. Grassroots: In comparison, Ian was raised by entrepreneurial parents, and this gave him an established level of social mobility. Charlie asks how they can give these opportunities to people from all backgrounds. Ian says it's about talent. (00:04:43)

6. “Talent comes in lots of different shapes and forms”: Womble Bond Dickinson has developed contextualised recruitment method which helps to level the playing field. (00:06:55)

7. Positive discrimination?: Charlie poses a tricky question about whether this is an issue and how to avoid it by still offering opportunities to everyone. Francesca encourages us to question how, historically, other groups have benefited. (00:08:42)

8. “That’s a reflection on them”: Ian welcomes a challenge to traditional processes, with data and measurable outcomes supporting recruitment, ensuring the right person is hired for the job. (00:11:10)

9. Measurable promotions: Law firms are typically different from other businesses; internal promotions require high standards to be set and achieved. The legal sector is measurable, making it easier to track and identify peoples' backgrounds. (00:13:24)

10. A safe space away from the desk: At the firm’s Newcastle Helix office, Womble Bond Dickinson turned hierarchical office space standards on its head and transformed its most valuable area into a canteen for ALL staff. An investment that's paid off. (00:14:47)

11. Does everyone have a say?: Charlie asks about WBD’s CSR initiatives. (00:17:14)

12. Setting expectations for part-time workers: Ian expresses how important the values are in WBD’s culture. Charlie asks how they can make this fairer for part-time colleagues. (00:19:27)

13. A salary war: Charlie asks about WBD’s pay grades and if it differs what colleagues earn in the North East vs the rest of the UK, and even in the US. (00:23:23)

14. “Agnostic towards location”: Ian explores how the pandemic shifted meeting styles. It is much less important to “be in the room” now, meaning North East-based talent is now able to access London roles/salaries without moving. (00:24:45)

15. “You can’t be competitive”: Charlie asks if there is a challenge for the business to keep hold of talent in the region, and Ian says yes. Remote working allows employees to have a better work-life balance without losing high-profile work. (00:25:58)

16. Regional pay gaps: Charlie wants to know how many salary geo tiers there are. Charlie also challenges the notion that the North East offers ‘cheap labour’, while Ian posits that “you shouldn’t value yourself on your pay." (00:27:20)

17. “Go back to where you came from”: Francesca shares she chose law because it offers great career prospects regardless of where you are based, she’s proud of doing the work she loves in her home city. (00:29:33)

18. Mandating back to the office: Charlie asks the hot question about the return to the office. Francesca believes forcing people will result in negative outcomes for employers. Ian agrees, but he's concerned about keeping values in remote working. (00:30:07)

19. Positive work culture: Charlie wants to know what’s the ‘magic dust’ to make a great workplace? Francesca and Ian give their two cents on making WBD a positive place to work. (00:33:42)