The Evolution and Benefits of Team Teaching

Better Learning Podcast

In the milestone 200th episode of the Better Learning Podcast, special host Kevin Foote sits down with Dr. Andy Forless, superintendent of Mesa Public Schools, to dive into a conversation about innovation in education. As the leader of Arizona's largest school district, Dr. Forless shares her unique journey from classroom teacher to educational leadership and how her passion for teaching has shaped her vision for transforming student learning experiences.

The centerpiece of their discussion revolves around Mesa Public Schools' groundbreaking team teaching model, an approach designed to leverage shared expertise among educators. This model fosters a sense of belonging among students, enhances student engagement, and has proven effective in improving teacher retention—a growing challenge in education today. Dr. Forless and Kevin also explore the role of collaborative learning spaces and partnerships, particularly with Arizona State University, in making these educational innovations possible.

Takeaways:

• Team teaching allows for shared expertise among educators.
• Collaborative learning spaces enhance the team teaching experience.
• Personalized learning is essential for student engagement.
• Partnerships with universities can drive educational innovation.
• Redesigning working conditions is crucial to retain teachers.
• The future of education relies on collaboration and flexibility.

Andi Fourlis is the superintendent at Mesa Public Schools. Her career began in 1992 as a teacher in the Washington Elementary School District in Phoenix. She joined the Scottsdale Unified School District in 1996, where she spent 19 years as a teacher, director, executive director and assistant superintendent. In 2015 she joined the Arizona Science Center as the chief learning officer. In 2017, she joined Mesa Public Schools as the assistant superintendent of teaching and learning and later served as deputy superintendent.

Andi Fourlis has received numerous awards, including the Horace Mann Ruler of the Month Award in 2019, the Kathy Hunt-Ullock Award for Middle Level Advocacy in 2013, and Teacher of the Year Award at Royal Palm Middle School in 1994. She is a graduate of Valley Leadership Institute Class 38 (2017).

Sound Bites: "I never thought that I would ever leave my classroom." "Team teaching is when a group of adults share expertise."

Follow Dr. Andi Fourlis on Social Media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andi-fourlis-713994122/

Learn More About Mesa Public Schools:

Website: https://www.mpsaz.org/

Learn more about creating better learning environments at www.Kay-Twelve.com.

Kevin Stoller is the host of the Better Learning Podcast and Co-Founder of Kay-Twelve, a national leader for educational furniture. Find out more about Kevin at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinstoller/.

For more episodes of the Better Learning Podcast, visit https://www.betterlearningpodcast.com/

Episode 200 of the Better Learning Podcast

Kevin Stoller is the host of the Better Learning Podcast and Co-Founder of Kay-Twelve, a national leader for educational furniture. Learn more about creating better learning environments at www.Kay-Twelve.com.

For more information on our partners:

Association for Learning Environments (A4LE) - https://www.a4le.org/

Education Leaders' Organization - https://www.ed-leaders.org/

Second Class Foundation - https://secondclassfoundation.org/

EDmarket - https://www.edmarket.org/

Catapult @ Penn GSE - https://catapult.gse.upenn.edu/

Want to be a Guest Speaker? Request on our website

Transcript

Kevin Stoller (00:01.288) Welcome back to the better learning podcast. My name is Kevin Stoller I'm the normal host of the show, but we have another Kevin Kevin foot who's gonna be stepping in and Leading the conversation with dr. Andy for lists She is the superintendent of Mesa Public Schools the largest district in Arizona and I'm bummed that I wasn't part of this conversation I was really looking forward to it. But as you listen to the episode they talk a lot about their team Teaching approach had they've been doing in conjunction with Arizona State University. So it's really fascinating. So listen in. I hope you learn a lot from this and here you get to hear Kevin Foote and Dr. Andy Forless.

Kevin Foote (00:46.85) Hello, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm a different Kevin.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

That is just grand, no troubles at all. So I'm Andy Forlund, Superintendent in Mesa Public Schools. I am an Arizona native. I began my educational career in Mesa Public Schools at Lowell Elementary. I'm starting kindergarten at Lowell. And I became a teacher because I loved to play school ever since I was a little girl.

I was trying to arrange and rearrange, whether it was stuffed animals, my brother, the neighborhood kids, I was always organizing them into some type of a classroom. And so I spent fond memories of being a toddler and then growing up always playing school.

I got super excited about going to kindergarten and I planned for my first day of kindergarten for a very long time from what I was going to wear to what my lunchbox was going to look like, what my backpack would look like and so on. So my mom took me to kindergarten and off I went and she picked me up at the end of the day. So excited to hear about, my gosh, Andi, how was your first day of school? You've been waiting this for so long. Well, I started crying. I pitched a fit in the car. I said it was the worst day of my life.

And I remember her face was just blank. Like, how could this be the worst day of your life? And mom, you did not tell me that I was not going to be the teacher today. So I went to school and I was four. I was turning five in December. I went to school to kindergarten as a fourth as a four year old. Yeah. I was going for one reason. That was to be the teacher.

I have had this idea that I was going to be a teacher because I always wanted to arrange people and things so that they can learn. And so as long as I can remember, I was always going to be a teacher in the back of my mind. Then I went to school, so I'll answer another one of the questions. So school for me was, it was a great place. I learned quickly. I had lots of questions. I kept thinking about how it could be different, how it should be different.

And as I went through school, I never raised my hand. And when people ask me, Andi, what do you want to be when you grow up? I never said a teacher. kept thinking, I don't want to do it like this. I want to do it differently. And it wasn't until I had the opportunity to take some college courses that like an introduction to education, I thought, OK, this is what I'm going to do with my life. I can't way that it currently is.

I don't have to live in the status quo. So I've always had one goal and I've always been in the service industry. I was a waitress all through high school and college to pay my way through college. And I realized that serving other people was something that I was good at and that it contributed to a better life for me and others.

Kevin Foote

I love it. I love it. Very, very similar backgrounds, you and I. I'm not going to get into mine, but very, very similar. I was one of those weird ones that always knew I wanted to be a teacher. So what got you into administration, whether it was principal or eventually now in superintendency, what was your guiding light for that?

Dr. Andi Fourlis

Well, I will tell you that I never thought that I would ever leave my classroom.

I taught third grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, and then eighth grade. And it was a sixth grade classroom that I had district leaders come into my classroom and ask me if I was interested in mentoring other teachers. And I said, sure, I've always mentored other teachers. They said, yeah, but this would be a full time job where you step out of your classroom and for maybe three years or so work in our new teacher induction model and bring in our new secondary teachers. And really get that complemented to strong instructional practices and so on.

I said, interesting. Okay, I could do that for a little bit. And then I never went back. So that was in 2000. And so here we are, 24 years later, I've not gone back into a classroom. I still have samples of student work that I'm ready to use someday. But I've back. So it was a tap on the shoulder to move into teacher leadership. And my journey has been through teacher leadership. I've never been a building principal or assistant principal.

My journey was being an instructional coach and then to a director of professional learning and a director of recruitment.

Kevin Foote

That's great. That's an interesting path. That's very unique compared to general superintendents. They've usually gone the principal path. So that's a very interesting path like that.

So I've done some research into it. I've actually...you know, we've designed some schools and stuff within the ASU model of the team teaching and everything. And I wanted you to talk some more about that. I was able to listen to another podcast you were on and I've just, I loved it. Loved it. I was like, guys, this is right. I love hearing about this.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I would say like, I'm sorry to be redundant, but I know you probably love talking about it.

And this is a, you know, maybe a bigger, different audience. So, if this is, you know, maybe architects or designers or somebody maybe in my industry on that end could hear more about what the team teaching model is for, like, for me, I'm all about it I was in the classroom. Maybe somebody who's never really been in the classroom. What does that look like?

So when we think about our experiences in schools and being a one-on-one school is that people usually identify by saying, well, this was my third grade teacher. Well, my fifth grade teacher had the most impact on me. My seventh grade English teacher had an impact on me. That is the typical experience that most students have in American public school system.

When we think about team teaching is when you start students start to identify this is the team of teachers that I am working with and it is beyond the one teacher one classroom model. Then the majority of my career I had the great benefit of working on a team. I was not just one teacher trying to serve all of my children. I was always on a team. I started in third grade and that was a team taught class and I did my teaching and then taught there.

And then I moved into, there was a couple of years at the very beginning that I was a one teacher in one classroom. And I was a middle school team. And then when I moved to the Scottsdale Unified School District, I was also in a three person team, sharing a roster of 150 students. And we were co-designing deeper and more personalized learning. Those are all fancy words I have now, but I would have never been able to use.

1896 is when I started this work. School teaching is when there are a group of adults, teachers sharing their expertise to co-design instruction for a common roster of children that they serve. So, the public schools, our definition of a team is at least two teachers sharing a roster of students designing learning outcomes for them.

Kevin Foote

Awesome. Now, just piggybacking on that, are there...How rare is this in Arizona? Are there other districts that are doing this? Did you get the model from, I know ASU, Arizona State's kind of guiding it, but did you get to see any other districts in action that are doing this?

Dr. Andi Fourlis

So yeah, there are other districts that are implementing team teaching. And like I said, my own career, I started in 1991 and thinking about what we knew about middle school, adolescent design.

It was, middle schools were based on teams of teachers bringing their academic knowledge, working with other teachers to serve children. So this is not a model that's new at all. In fact, team teaching, we can go back into our history books and look at even our former superintendent, Dr. Jim Saharis talking about team teaching in the 1970s. So this is not a new concept. What's new about team teaching today, is that we are using it in an environment of high levels of accountability. Because I believe that we started moving to the one teacher one classroom under the era of No Child Left Behind.

No Child Left Behind talked about things like the highly qualified teacher, the appropriately certified teacher. And when it started breaking down classrooms by certification of who was highly certified to teach these students, and we had such a focus on that that we really aligned one teacher to typically a class of 25 to 30 students. And so No Child Left Behind came in with high levels of accountability to the teacher. And so team teaching, any type of collaboration, I believe, started to fall to the wayside.

Kevin Foote

Yeah. OK. And I love what you talked about there where it's taken it from that middle school model or the junior high model where that's essentially what you're doing. And why can't we do top down with that? I love that. It's so important to talk about when we talk about the next education workforce teaming model, it is more than just a team of teachers. When we're truly talking about teaming, we are opening up learning opportunities for students by bringing in community partners, by community educators, rethinking the role of an instructional assistant.

Even in today's world, here we are in 2024, rethinking the role of technology on a team. What role does this piece of technology play in integrating into the learning needs of students?

Dr. Andi Fourlis

So it's taking all of your resources and arranging for learning for students and it is beyond the scope of just the certified teachers in that classroom. It's wrapping adults around the needs of children.

Kevin Foote

Yes. I love that. And you you could see creating a strong workforce that knows how to work with, let's say, different types of bosses and all the varying learning styles and teaching styles that go along with, you know, I'm sure somebody in their career at some point were like, there's a boss that I just didn't work well with or I really like working for him or her and things like that. So I think this is a good start to that to get them to understand it at a young age.

How do you function within, how does this team teaching model function within like the learning environment, like the actual spaces? Can you explain how Mesa's done it or if you've seen another district, like how do they make it work with if you do have a space that's been designed and furnished for that and everything, and then a space that's not, how do they make that work? I'd love to hear both sides of it.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

So collaborative learning spaces are very important for teaming. And I will tell you that we have intentionally designed spaces for collaboration for teaming in Mesa Public Schools. And we also have teaming that is alive and well their physical design is not super conducive, but they make it work.

So I'll give you another example. At Westwood High School, all ninth and 10th graders are on teams, and those are bigger kids, and they need bigger spaces. And so we have some potentially designed space where walls have come down. They've got movable chalkboards, whiteboards throughout the room.

So kids are working on different projects. They're in and out of this collaborative space. At Stevenson Elementary, every child is on a team and they are beginning in first grade as a multi-grade team. And so the doors between classrooms are able to be opened. They look just like they're very large doors with the glass in between them and they- Storefront, if you will.

So students are moving from classroom to classroom within a pod. never walk outside. They are all inside the building between classes. We have others that students have to walk outside to the classroom next door. So there's lots of different ways. And but what is most important is not that we're just moving kids, but what is the purpose and the intent behind the movement? And that needs to be artfully designed.

We are moving kids around to get what they need to improve their learning outcome. So sometimes they need additional English language arts time. Sometimes they need more mathematics time. Sometimes they're going into innovation space because they're working in a project. And so they, at Stevenson Elementary, all students set their own intentions and learning targets for the day and then monitor those and then build their schedule with the guidance of the adults around what their game will look like. And so they have to be able to move.

Kevin Foote

Okay, I love that.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

That's one very last thing, have to be able to move. I love getting them up and moving. I'd also like to add that it's really important for our teams to build a community of learners. And so when the majority of our teaming models, at the beginning of the day, the entire grade level or grade bands at three, four, for example, at Stevenson, they meet in the morning for what they call family time. They all come together. Other schools, it might just be the entire third grade. They come together in the morning and they check the health and wellness of the community. That's what they do, but then they move on. At Stevenson, we have larger groups of children.

So another added feature is that we have audio enhancement. So all of the teachers use microphones and they're in the classroom. And that's been a modification so that all children can learn even in a large space.

Kevin Foote

That's great. I love that. I love that. what successes have you seen? And again, this is kind of like a two-part. What successes have you seen academically as well as socially? Because there's so many I want to hear from you firsthand. What successes have you seen in both those aspects?

Dr. Andi Fourlis

So we have what our strongest indicators are around students have a sense of belonging. So they know where they belong, have an identity and they have more than one adult that they can connect with every single day. So while you might be assigned to Mrs. Smith and in third grade and teacher one classroom model, you and Mrs. Smith may not see eye to eye on things.

And so in our teaming model, students have a lot of opportunity to connect with the expertise of multiple adults, including their teachers. So there's higher level of sense of belonging and confidence amongst our students that are in teams.

The other is that what we're paying attention to building their confidence and efficacy for how they can be self-directed learners, those early on indicators are that they're feeling more confident. And being self-directed, when we take a look at our teachers, their retention rates are higher and their job satisfaction is higher in the team. Because it's always nice to know that we're in this together, right? I don't just go in and say, 28 students and me, let's go do this. We're all in this together. And it's a lot of co-planning and it's using expertise. We have teachers that have a background and are really great in math instruction. They take the lead on planning and designing mathematics lessons and design. The same reading specialist on a team taking the lead for that particular team. So they're sharing their expertise. And we often see that if a teacher is going to be out, need the substitute for a doctor's appointment or something on a team, oftentimes they don't even get a substitute or the substance provides just, you know, like supervision and support so the kids don't miss a beat.

So we're also seeing learning outcomes are increasing. They've been paying attention to reading. So they are outpacing their peers in literacy development. And in our high schools, we're paying attention to Algebra 1 for our ninth grade. And we're seeing that students on teams are outperforming our students who are not on teams in Algebra 1.

Kevin Foote (18:50.83)

Love it. Awesome. Something that I heard you say in a previous quote you made was that you're looking to create more personalized learning. And that's like the one thing that jumped out at me because I remember when I was in the classroom, that was always my goal is for all, know, sometimes I had 32 third graders or whatever, know, but that was a big class, but, you 25 to 30 kids, try to know something about all of them, like what makes each of them tick and feel like having that team teaching models makes that so much easier.

You started teaching a little before me, like differentiated learning was the buzzword at the time. And so when I heard you say personalized, I'm like, I think that goes a little further. I love to hear that. So I don't if you want to elaborate on that a little much. That's just something I wanted to say. I thought it was pretty awesome.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

We know the research around differentiated instruction that we differentiate by process product, right? And for learning, but within our kids are so different and we have an incredibly diverse community. So we need to make sure that not only is it differentiated, that instruction is differentiated, but it is also personalized where we are building, students have agency that they are building the what's in it for them in their learning.

That takes it a little bit deeper than differentiation, because usually you differentiate for groups of kids. You look at personalization... it's a sliver of the solid research on why we differentiate. But this is saying that kids are setting their own goals. They're mastering their own goals. Elementary is very foundational. And English language arts, mathematics, and science, and social science. When we get into high school, that also looks at what is their career and college path that is personalized to them. It's not just the typical subject areas. It's like, no, I am on a path. I know that I want to pursue a degree in engineering. So my path is going to be different and I need to be engaged in an agent of my own learning towards that pathway.

Kevin Foote

I think it's a perfect piggyback on the next thing. what's something you think that, or a couple of things that Arizona State's helped with? How do you think we can help work with future teachers on this, specifically college of ed students at our major universities, things like that? Are there some tips you'd have for them? And then also how is Arizona State help with that?

Dr. Andi Fourlis

Well, what has been so helpful for us in our partnership with Arizona State University is the way that I think about our relationship is that ASU is the innovative university, a research-run university, and we are the laboratory to try those ideas, collect information, talk about what's working with boots on the ground and how they're constantly working together to make adaptations based on research and then based on implementation. And so to me, that's perfect model.

The other is that Arizona State University is keeping this conversation alive beyond Mesa Public Schools.

We have a crisis across the nation and the crisis of the teacher shortage. That's one long as I mentioned that I left my classroom in 2000 to be a new teacher induction specialist to help induct new teachers and then go out and recruit new teachers. So we've been at this for 24 years that we've been trying to solve a teacher. I think it's time that we're done admiring this problem and really digging down into why are teachers not choosing teaching?

And especially in 2024, it's because the teaching job is incredibly isolating and it's inflexible. So if we can build some collaboration and flexibility into the teaching profession, that is one step closer to solving the teacher shortage problem. A phrase that I say, oftentimes, if teachers are not leaving the profession, they're leaving their working conditions. And working conditions is something that we can control. And so let's control what we can control and let's redesign those working conditions. And my belief is that if we do that, the theory of action is that we will chip away at the teacher shortage.

Kevin Foote (23:38.798)

Awesome. I think that I have one more question, but you just answered it was how can people who are gonna hear this podcast help? And what are recommendations on what others do? But I feel like you nailed it in the head before I even got there.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

And I think the other thing is that what can ASU do with those that are choosing the teaching profession? Designing their instruction and the experiences that free service teachers have. If free service teachers are coming in and working and learning in isolation. That doesn't set them up for success when they come into our school district with teaming model. So what I really appreciate around our relationship is Dr. Basile and I are constantly calibrating. What are we doing in classrooms in Mesa Public Schools? And how does that trigger pre-service learning and vice versa?

Kevin Foote

Nice. I love it. love it. Well, thank you for your time today. I don't want to keep you too much longer.

I think we'll just go ahead and wrap up here and thank you again for all you do. And that's a big job with the biggest district in Arizona. So appreciate your time.

Dr. Andi Fourlis

The joy every day. We have so much opportunity to preserve the teaching profession and to create great outcomes.

Kevin Foote

Awesome. Thank you.

Kevin Stoller (25:09.986) The views and opinions expressed on the Better Learning Podcast are those of myself as an individual and my guests and do not necessarily represent the organizations that we work for, the Association for Learning Environments, K-12, Education Leaders Organization, or Second Class Foundation.