Professor Tim Jackson - Happiness and Wellbeing in a Post-Growth World

Sowing the Seeds of Change

My guest on this week’s podcast is Professor Tim Jackson, ecological economist, author, and playwright. Since 2016 he has been Director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP) at the University of Surrey in the UK, where he is also Professor of Sustainable Development. He is well known for his book, Prosperity without Growth (2009/2017) which has been translated into 17 foreign languages. His latest book Post Growth – Life after Capitalism was published by Polity Press this year. In 2016, Tim was awarded the Hillary Laureate for exceptional international leadership in sustainability. In addition to his academic work, Tim is an award-winning dramatist with numerous radio-writing credits for the BBC.

Tim was one of my examiners for my recent doctorate on the nature of change. Towards the end of our conversation he mentions that it’s quite entertaining that the tables are now turned, and the fact that he gave me a moderately hard time in my viva, or doctoral defence as Americans call it. So yes, he did make me sweat. But actually I’m immensely grateful to him, because the amendments he requested are now forming the core of my forthcoming book, The Ocean in a Drop.

But I have to admit that coming into this conversation, I did feel a bit like a poorly prepared undergraduate heading into an exam. I hope my nerves aren’t too obvious!

We talk about Aristotle, wisdom, resilience, fear, consumer capitalism, Maslow’s hierarchy, 100 year plans, inequality, the 1%, materialism, the science of desire, pitchforks, revolutions, yoga, yin and yang, the patriarchy, and our mutual confession to being closet monarchists.

What I really appreciate about Tim is his courage to question the status quo, especially around GDP as the pre-eminent metric of success – when we know it’s a tremendously poor indicator of wellbeing and happiness. We’ve been sold this myth that sustainability is all about sacrifice and wearing a hair shirt and it just isn’t true. Once our basic needs are met, we really do have the opportunity to have happier people AND a healthier planet – at the same time – by focusing on the things that bring real joy, like doing fulfilling work, having healthy relationships, and feeling safe and supported by our community – we really can have our environmental cake, and eat it.