Season 2, Episode 19: Considering Happiness and What It Should Mean for You

Climate Change and Happiness

image credit| Eddie Kopp

Season 2, Episode 19: Considering Happiness and What It Should Mean for You

What is happiness? And how to live it? These ancient questions are discussed by Thomas and Panu, especially as related to living with the climate and ecological crisis. Listen to a dialog on happiness — as a “wild” emotion, as a result of contact with the natural world, and as a feeling we can only know in the context of the other feelings we experience. Panu and Thomas plumbed the cultural connotations of happiness as a form of luck, an experience of joy or pleasure, and a sense of honor, an outcome of a life well lived. Carpe Diem (Seize the Day!) and learn tools to develop your own potential for happiness at this time.

Links

• Thomas and Panu referenced the concept of “carpe diem” as showcased in the classic film Dead Poets Society. (Note the phrase is more accurately translated as “plucking the day” evoking plucking and gathering ripening fruits or flowers, and enjoying a moment rooted in the sensory experience of nature.)

• To appreciate different conceptions of happiness from around the world, Thomas recommends The Atlas of Happiness by Helen Russell.

• Panu recommends emotion coach Karla McLaren, and her books like The Language of Emotions as well as the work of psychoanalyst Joseph Dodds, such as “Dancing at the end of the world? Psychoanalysis, climate change and joy”

Transcript

Transcript edited for clarity and brevity.

Thomas Doherty: Please support the climate change and happiness podcast see the donate page at climatechangeandhappiness.com.

[music: “CC&H theme music”]

Thomas Doherty: Well, hello, I'm Thomas Doherty.

Panu Pihkala: And I am Panu Pihkala.

Doherty: And Panu and I welcome you to Climate Change and Happiness. Our podcast. This is a show for people around the globe, who are thinking and feeling deeply about the personal side of climate change and many other environmental issues. And so here we focus on our emotional responses. Issues like today, our topic of happiness, other issues like eco anxiety, and things that are plaguing people. You can learn about us at climatechangeandhappiness.com and see many early episodes where we talk about various parts of happiness, and various ways to think about being happy. And you can support us at our donation page as well.

And so, going back to our mission, when we created this podcast, it was a couple of things: Panu is a researcher of emotions and environmental emotions. And I'm interested in that, and I've worked in that area [as a psychologist and therapist]. So we really wanted to get into these climate and environmental emotions. And then there's this larger question of what does it mean to be happy? You know, “climate change and happiness?” How do those terms go together? What does it mean to be happy in this modern world? And so it's a question we all have to decide every morning, every day and in our lives. So we wanted to come back to our mission. And we're working on a writing project for The Happiness Encyclopedia [Elgar Encyclopedia on Happiness, Quality of Life and Subjective Well-being; ed. by Roger Fernandez-Urbano & Hilke Brockmann, forthcoming 2023.], that Panu can talk about in a moment. And part of our job is writing about eco anxiety and happiness, which is interesting and challenging. So that's where we're at today, folks. And we're going to try to keep this real to our lives, to our personal lives and your personal life as well. So, think about things in terms of your own life and your own happiness. So Panu, this is a big area. We talk about “the elephant,” the blind men and the elephant and people touching on different parts of a big area. So where in this big elephant of happiness would you like to start?

Pihkala: Hmm, perhaps the trunk or the foot. But yes, the issue of languages is, again, interesting here. And one of our passions in this podcast has been to think about things in different languages. And the word for happiness in [the] Finnish language is onnellisuus. A short form would be onni. Which is etymologically also connected to luck. In some languages, happiness and being lucky are closely connected, and in some other languages not. We don't necessarily think of luck when we think about happiness in Finland and in Finnish, but it's a close connection.

And it's not exactly the same, this Finnish concept of onnellisuus and the English happiness. And many listeners know there's been a very long discussion in North America about pursuing happiness. And how to define happiness and the things around that. And so there's plenty to discuss here. I think linking to the major theme of our podcast, the climate crisis and ecological crisis, is how that challenges some forms of happiness or so called happiness. And then the task of how to live a good life or meaningful life which are important parts of what people are talking about. At least some people when they are talking about happiness. So those things are gonna be on the table today. But what does happiness mean to you, Thomas? How do you see it?

Doherty: That's a great question. I was afraid you were gonna ask me that Panu? Because it's a tough one. You know, I'm just thinking about this idea of luck. And the onni in Finnish. We're kind of students of happiness words. There's a great book out there called The Atlas of Happiness by a writer named Helen Russell. And she went around the world and found different interesting words for happiness in different cultures. And I thought about luck. There's a word, Xingfu, in Chinese. A state of being happy. But it's a combination of luck and having just enough of what you need. [See Xingfu entry in the The Atlas of Happiness by Helen Russell.]

So, I think a lot of cultures have realized that happiness kind of comes and goes, And sometimes there's a luckiness factor to feeling happy. And then, of course, having just enough of what you need is another part of this right? And that's a concept that's shared around the world as well. Lagom, you know, having just enough. You know, one way I approach this, when I'm working with people in myself, I might start with the opposite. What does being not happy look like? And then sometimes that helps me a little bit. You know, what am I missing, and then it gives me a clue to what I need to be happy. And I know, I'm a parent, and this morning, my daughter, it's early morning, here from me. And my 15 year old daughter had a struggling morning to get to school. And get to the bus and feeling overwhelmed about her schoolwork. And she was really not feeling happy. And being distraught, like teenagers will be at times. Or all of us will be at times. And then I as a parent, being the solo parent on the job, was not happy either, because I had to help her. So happiness does include, you know, feeling safe in the moment. I think if we want to keep our happiness in terms of our climate and environmental context, I think there's a peace and happiness about feeling safe or feeling secure. And if we don't have that, sometimes it's really hard to feel happy. To be in the moment enough to enjoy our moments, without this big weight of all these other things over our head. This eco anxiety and “meta-insecurity” that kind of, you know, drains our ability to be happy. So I think that's a place. So it's being in the moment and feeling secure. And that's a place I would start.

Pihkala: Yeah, thanks. That's very profound, I think. And reminds me of this movie, The Dead Poets Society (1989), [featuring] Robin Williams, and others. And I haven't thought about that for quite some time, actually. But I remember when we were at the upper levels of comprehensive school, you know, like 13, or 14, me and many of my friends actually liked the movie a lot. We didn't watch these kinds of a bit arty, serious movies very much during then. It was more, you know, action movies, and that's that type of thing. But that movie caught our attention. And I think it succeeded in encountering this basic issue of Carpe Diem. You know, seize the moment. It's closely related to happiness that one would be able to appreciate the everyday moments of existence. And of course, that may not always be joyful, or delightful as an emotional state. But if one is connected to the sort of most meaningful things, then that's related to happiness in the sense of a good life or meaningful life. So some reflections that came to mind when listening to you.

Doherty: Yeah, and it reminds us that art is very important in our happiness. I mean, so the listeners can think about this. I mean, one of our metaphors, again, is the blind man and the elephant. And, you know, with climate change, and all these kinds of big global issues. So people look at different parts of the issue. And they argue about it. But we, you know, don't argue about happiness. That's one takeaway. Think about different ways that people need to be happy. And if someone with you is unhappy, try to be curious about what they need. And it might not be the same thing that you need at the moment. You know, my daughter, you know, my well meaning parenting advice this morning about don't waste your time by being distraught because it actually makes you even more late for your bus. You know, that kind of logical stuff she wasn't open to at the moment. But you know, I needed a hug and needed some actual help. And also just some patience. Just let her be because, again, you know, on really more profound terms with climate change. These issues like the East Palestine train derailment in the US that we talked about in our recent recording, and that's going to come out here soon. There's a lot of thieves that will steal our happiness. trying to steal our happiness.

So we do have to be vigilant. Feelings are wild though. Feelings of happiness will arise. Feelings of, you know, because positive things will happen. Last night before I was going to bed, my window was slightly open because I like some fresh air in the evening and I heard an owl. I thought I heard an owl. And we don't typically have owls around where I live. And then I went and sat by the window and opened the window and listened into the night. And sure enough, there was an owl, you know. And then I double checked it with my bird app on my phone that has bird calls. A merlin in this app, you know, where you can turn it on and it'll listen. And it'll tell you what the bird sound is. It's good for birders that don't know the birds. And sure enough, it confirmed it was a Barred Owl And that was a really unexpected moment of happiness for me. In the evening. Before I went to bed. Just a little connection with the natural world. And Barred Owls are probably migrating here because of the season through our urban neighborhood. So that's wild. You know, that's a wild thing. And I was meeting with a young person yesterday talking about their own climate anxiety. And we were talking about a lot of things. But after a while, she said she felt excited about some of the things we were talking about. And that was a wild feeling we agreed. Because she hadn't prepared to feel excited. So at least these positive feelings will happen if we can stay in the moment and be aware of them. That's the dilemma.

Pihkala: Yeah, I totally, totally agree. And in my Finnish work, part of that was a book about various emotions and feelings that people may experience in relation to ecology [Mieli maassa? Ympäristötunteet, 2019], and environmental issues and other things like that. And then I did a lot of thinking about various nuances of feeling good or feeling happy. And that's, I think, a very important topic. Also, I might leave it to another moment in this episode, because I still want to talk about one thing in the movie. I'm linking to one thing you said also, which is, in this old movie, Dead Poets Society, there's some young man who really would like to be an actor, but his parents definitely don't like the idea. They would like him to continue studying very hard and being able to get a job, which would pay well. And a classic situation where there's lots of dreams by the parents and the younger generation might not agree with all of them.

But it raises up this whole issue of professions and work life and what are we striving for. And that's, of course, very closely connected to the ecological crisis also. Because some things that some people have regarded or learned to regard as signs of happiness and well being, like having a huge amount of riches. Then that's generally speaking, of course, not possible for the whole population of this planet. To put it mildly. And we know that people are different. You know, there are wealthy people who are doing great stuff, ethically speaking, and living a good and meaningful life by working towards the common good. But on average, this structure of “let's all get more material possessions”, so that's detrimental for the happiness of creatures on this planet. So I just wanted to bring that link between happiness and ecological crisis. And partly also eco anxiety or climate anxiety.

Doherty: Yeah, you're right. I mean, there's a political aspect to this, obviously, right? I mean, what drives our happiness and what our policies are about. What people are supposed to be happy about. Potentially a huge impact on the planet and other species. And of course, social justice issues where certain people are subjugated. And so that other people can somehow be happy. And so, yeah, that gets us to the anger, you know. Anger another emotion that comes up here. Which it joins with happiness. If you are from another planet, and you came here and you dropped into us. And try to understand the culture by watching the mainstream media. You would think that happiness was sufficient if you had a new car and a new phone, some fast food and some sort of wealth management program. You know, it's very superficial. And we know that that system is driving the planet into ruin. And everyone knows that. So it's an open secret. So I think there is this, as in many areas, there's a crisis of what it means to be happy. But happiness is much more simple and much more.

You know, we talk about these fancy words. These words that researchers use, like intrinsic versus extrinsic. You know, so intrinsic happiness is things that just mean something to us. Doesn't require possessions. It doesn't require, you know, a lot of money and super wealth. It is just intrinsic things, again, security, safety, family, friends, social support. You know, a lot of people are unhappy these days, because they feel isolated in their eco concerns. Partly why we do this podcast, so people don't feel as isolated. Because when you're lonely, that's another feeling that lives with happiness. And it kind of makes it more difficult to be happy. So yes, each listener can find their own piece that they need to work on. Some people want, you know, to be angry and to work on change to make them happy. It makes them feel good.

Lately, the model that I've been using with helping people with emotions and my own self is, you know, it's not eliminating emotions. It's just adding other emotions to join whatever emotion that we're trying to work with. So if I'm feeling lonely, like I say, you know, if it was a party. And I had a party. And my only guest was loneliness, then that would be everything we would sort of focus on at the party. But if curiosity shows up, you know, that emotion shows up. Then you're lonely, but then you're also curious. Or patience shows up that I also can wait and sort of hold on. Or courage shows up, you know. Or anger shows up and says, well, you shouldn't stand for this. We should do something about this, right? So lonely it is still there. But it's supported by these other emotions. And a lot of people have an insight with that. Because they think they need to, you know, eliminate a bad emotion. And it's impossible. It's natural. And it's normal. And it's healthy to feel lonely if we are isolated. But we can make lonely, less lonely as a feeling if we add other feelings to it. And anyway, that's a metaphor I've been using. So people can think about that with happiness as well. Yeah, our happiness exists, but it feels lonely. And if we can bring in some other emotions, that happiness can be stronger. Does that make sense?

Pihkala: Yeah, yeah. That reminds me of the emotion coach, Karla McLaren’s work. And she uses the metaphor of the village. You know, in every village, there's different kinds of people. There might be quite big differences between them also, but still, they belong there. And then that's a metaphor for various emotions. And also that can be linked with various skills. You know, different persons are good at different things. And in the village of our self, or our psyche, we need all those emotions, guys and gals, so to speak. So that makes us capable of responding to various kinds of situations.

And personally, I'm very much for the view that emotions and feelings also have intrinsic value. So it's not just the instrumental value. There is definitely that also. Sometimes you need anger to fight some injustice, for example. But then, emotions are also related to just being alive. And feeling joy or feeling sadness, that's related to their intrinsic value of being alive, also. So not just the instrumental, emotions have a lot of that intrinsic value, also.

Doherty: Yeah. And so let's do a little teaching for the listeners. So yeah, there's these terms that we use that are really useful. So instrumental value. If I'm following you, I mean, it's a useful value. Like it's instrumental. It's useful. It has a practical use to it. That's what you mean about that, right?

Pihkala: Roughly. Yeah. You know, if you have an ax, that's going to be of great instrumental value if you need to chop some firewood.

Doherty: Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Pihkala: But then, if you have an ax that you have inherited from your great grandfather, it may be that you never chop any wood with that, but it still has great value for you because it's a family artifact.

Doherty: Yeah. And environmental groups and environmentalists think about this because, you know, they think about the instrumental values of things. If people do care about nature and care about it, they're going to change their behavior. And so there's a piece where we harness and use emotions to help make social change. And that gets into the whole idea of advertising and marketing and social marketing. And of course, advertisers who are trying to sell consumer products also try to make this instrumental so they get people to buy things. And all this sort of stuff. So again, we can put on our philosopher hats.

And, you know, people over the millennia have thought about, you know, feeling good in terms of hedonism and just feeling happy in the moment. Kind of more epicurean, kind of just enjoying the beauty of life and food and drink and people and pleasure and the arts and music. And then the more I guess, “eudaimonic” would be the term, which is really a life well lived, where we feel good about our life. We feel when we look back on our life, we feel like we were our best self. We did good work. We helped other people. We lived up to our values, right? That's the other. That's that other piece of happiness, right? And listeners we all struggle with, like, are we living up to our values? Are we being our best self? And that guilt and shame that people have sometimes of not living up to their values really kind of impacts our happiness.

Pihkala: Yeah, yeah. Some people use the word existential guilt. In this sense, you know, it's related to who you are, and the fundamentals of life. And if you feel that you haven't been nearly what you feel you should have been. So that goes near this existential guilt. And in this podcast, we've often talked about how important it is not to let feelings of inadequacy rule our lives. Because these structural problems are bigger than any of us. So it's no use if we just constantly feel bad and inadequate.

But of course, we also need the abilities of guilt and shame so that we can know this, when we are individually or collectively headed in the wrong direction. Or if we have done something which is not as good as it should have been. So it can be a very tricky balance. It's not easy. I totally echo […] . And this idea of living a good and meaningful life. So some people may not even feel it themselves. Like Mother Teresa, for example. The famous helper of poor people. Who apparently quite often felt quite miserable and anxious. But when evaluated from an ethical standpoint, she ended up living a very, very meaningful life. And in the ethical sense, a very good life. So sometimes, it may not even feel good for the person himself or herself. But it may be related to very important things that still are going on.

Doherty: Yeah. That's a really neat point too. So yeah, we talked about we have issues and we have issues. We have our big capital issues we're going to work on in the world. And we have our lowercase I issues. Our feelings. Our baggage. I mean, there's a lot we can talk about here. I mean, we know from the research that people have a sort of a happiness set point. People have a general disposition and temperament. And some people are more naturally upbeat and happier than others. Some people are more melancholic. I tend to be more melancholic myself at times. And that's just part of our personality and our style. We got to make the most of what we have. And then yes, there's this other piece of engaging with these wicked problems in the world. These problems are all a big tangle of problems. Like poverty, like environmental injustice, like climate change, like natural disasters, like the economy, capitalism, corporate propaganda. You know, all these things, this is a big tangle of things. And we can't fix this, like directly. But we can engage with it. And be doing something. I was talking to some people about this the other day. And you know, as long as we're doing something that we feel like we have some expertise in.

I was talking to someone who works in Portland here with the transportation department. But specifically around bike lanes and moving people around. And it's a really tough job in cities because we've got the crush of traffic. And then the problem of unhoused people on the streets and the economy and climate change. But if you're doing something and you have some expertise, you can spend your day working on it. You're engaged. And ultimately it feels good even if you don't solve the problems. You know you've shown up and put a good day's work into it. So we talked about, you know, we need to increase that engagement. So the catchphrase was, increase and make peace. So increase your engagement and make peace with everything that you can't do.

Pihkala: Yeah, yeah. Inner peace. Which may be related to outer peace. And in many cultures, a sense of honor—

Doherty: Honor.

Pihkala: —has been very closely related to views about the good life and meaningful life. And I think that's a very important aspect of our lives in the ecological crisis also. So when we know in our bodies and in our hearts, that we have at least tried to do something with the resources we have. And in the contexts in which we live, which are very different. Some people have much more options than others. So if we are able to be in that position, then we regain or have some sense of honor which is very important for us human beings, I think.

Doherty: It's really great, Panu. Honor. I actually have never. I've never linked honor with this area. I don't think I've ever quite thought about that. I've never seen it also linked anywhere in anything I've written or I've read. So yeah, a sense of honor. That's just something just to let us sit with and do you know, I mean. I feel a sense of honor by talking with you on this podcast. And doing some of the things that I do. So that's an interesting, you know, thing to think about. People talk about, metaphorically, what would I, what would I tell my grandchildren, you know, when they asked me or when people in the future would ask me, what did you do during this time? You know, I think if we say that we took some action, we can have a sense of honor about that. That's really neat. I'm gonna think more about that.

Pihkala: Yeah, yeah. We might come back to that, in some episode. It would be very interesting. And all this is related to what can be called practical eco anxiety. You know, the eco anxiety and the engaged life. This sensitivity to the troubles in the world and the motivation to do something about that. And that's one of the points in our happiness encyclopedia article with Thomas. That eco anxiety can be linked with meaningful life and getting engaged also. And sometimes that can result in so-called positive emotions. There can be a lot of joy with others, when people are working for the common good. That happens a lot. When people start doing things, of course, there may be feelings of disappointment, also heavily.

And it's not just happy, happy, joy, joy. But there is joy also. And lately, some psychologists and researchers have started to lift that theme up, also more. Like Joseph Dodds, for example, in a recent piece (“Dancing at the end of the world?”), where he argues that it might be very important that we also allow ourselves and others to be more often joyful. And that's another theme we have touched upon this podcast. And I think something nice to talk about as we are getting close to the end of this episode. This permission to feel joy (ilolupa as my Finnish concept). And I think that's not the same as happiness. But of course, it's profoundly connected to this ability to feel various emotions in one's life.

Doherty: Yeah, this is all really great. We try to end these episodes on a sort of an uplifting note for the listener for the rest of their day. You know, I think one side of this crisis of happiness is that it's a really creative time. People are being creative about what happiness means. And some of these old definitions are. I mean, in our lives, that's part of our change and our growth. We let go of old definitions of happiness that no longer serve us. That is superficial or immature. Or we've grown out of. And so we've got, you know, writers like Rebecca Solnit, who I like to write about, you know, visions of hope and Paradise built in hell, you know. About, you know, what actually happens when people rise above during disasters and things like that. Joseph Dodds, as you say. Glenn Albrecht has a whole lexicon of climate emotions and states that he's created kind of like a philosophical art gallery of different states and feelings and things like that. Which are inspiring to people. And so over the years, there's been people being creative and holding space for happiness in various ways.

So yeah, so it's again, joy. Our engaged life leads to what I would say moments of joy. It doesn't lead to permanent joy, but it leads to literal genuine moments of joy. So essentially, in our emotional party, our diligence and our patience and our, you know, our fatigue and our weariness, joy shows up to the party from time to time as well. Presence. Happiness. You know, it becomes a guest if we just move forward. So I invite the listeners to think about, you know, that feelings are wild. Just be aware. We all don't like it when an unexpected guest shows up to our party that's grief or despair, or guilt or shame, or embarrassment. But we also need to be aware when special guests come in. Like joy and presence or wonder, awe. All these things as well come around. So that's what I'm thinking about Panu, as I get into my day. And start my day here on a Monday. That's a good way for me to start actually thinking about these positive feelings. How about yourself? Where are you heading for the rest of your evening?

Pihkala: It's Monday evening here. And the boys are starting to return home. So I think one activity will be a very Finnish important thing related to happiness, which is the sauna. So yeah, that's one example of people, you know, very literally, stripping away status and wealth and that sort of thing. So it's just a connection with the steam and the warmth and other people and water.

Doherty: That sounds really nice.

Pihkala: That's gonna be a happy moment this evening.

Doherty: Well, good. You deserve it. You've worked a long day there and been a parent with your boys. And so enjoy. And listeners, you all take care of yourselves. And we will pick it up again next time. And you can find us at climatechangeandhappiness.com. And please support our websites so we can bring more guests and more good topics to you. Be well.

Pihkala: Take care.

Doherty: The Climate Change and Happiness Podcast is a self funded volunteer effort. Please support us so we can keep bringing you messages of coping and thriving. See the donate page at climatechangeandhappiness.com.