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Indhold leveret af Michael Shaw. Alt podcastindhold inklusive episoder, grafik og podcastbeskrivelser uploades og leveres direkte af Michael Shaw eller deres podcastplatformspartner. Hvis du mener, at nogen bruger dit ophavsretligt beskyttede værk uden din tilladelse, kan du følge processen beskrevet her https://da.player.fm/legal.
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We Have The Receipts
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1 Love Is Blind S8: Pods & Sober High Thoughts w/ Courtney Revolution & Meg 1:06:00
1:06:00
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Happy Valentine’s Day! You know what that means: We have a brand new season of Love Is Blind to devour. Courtney Revolution (The Circle) joins host Chris Burns to delight in all of the pod romances and love triangles. Plus, Meg joins the podcast to debrief the Madison-Mason-Meg love triangle. Leave us a voice message at www.speakpipe.com/WeHaveTheReceipts Text us at (929) 487-3621 DM Chris @FatCarrieBradshaw on Instagram Follow We Have The Receipts wherever you listen, so you never miss an episode. Listen to more from Netflix Podcasts.…
The Conversation Art Podcast
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Indhold leveret af Michael Shaw. Alt podcastindhold inklusive episoder, grafik og podcastbeskrivelser uploades og leveres direkte af Michael Shaw eller deres podcastplatformspartner. Hvis du mener, at nogen bruger dit ophavsretligt beskyttede værk uden din tilladelse, kan du følge processen beskrevet her https://da.player.fm/legal.
A podcast that goes behind the scenes and between the lines of the contemporary art worlds, through conversations with artists, dealers, curators, and collectors--based in Los Angeles, but reaching nationally and internationally.
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166 episoder
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Manage series 1247881
Indhold leveret af Michael Shaw. Alt podcastindhold inklusive episoder, grafik og podcastbeskrivelser uploades og leveres direkte af Michael Shaw eller deres podcastplatformspartner. Hvis du mener, at nogen bruger dit ophavsretligt beskyttede værk uden din tilladelse, kan du følge processen beskrevet her https://da.player.fm/legal.
A podcast that goes behind the scenes and between the lines of the contemporary art worlds, through conversations with artists, dealers, curators, and collectors--based in Los Angeles, but reaching nationally and internationally.
…
continue reading
166 episoder
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Painting, photography, and hard but necessary decisions: Claire Witteveen, an artist in Amsterdam 1:12:13
1:12:13
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In Episode 372, the 1st half of the conversation with Amsterdam-based painter and photographer Claire Witteveen , she talks about: Her putting off painting initially in favor of photography, for reasons both practical and related to insecurity, partly based on her mom being an artist who juggled that and being a mother; how she can feel completely disconnected from her photography (mainly when it’s a commercial object), but at other times, especially taking portraits, she feels very connected to her subjects; and how with painting she sees it as a monologue, whereas photography is more of a dialogue; how one photography job, combined with painting sales, can sustain her for the year; the complicated nature balance of making good work, and maintaining integrity, while also making a living, or enough income from the artmaking to survive on; the wide swings she can go through in the studio, from thinking she’s re-inventing the wheel in the morning to thinking she’s a total hack later that day; the nuanced factors that make a painting interesting, instead of just good, and an anecdote in which a collector at her opening asked what one of her paintings was about, only to find that it didn’t really matter what she said, because it already ‘spoke to his soul;’ how she connected with her gallerists in Paris, whom she feels very lucky to have and very supported by; the transformation of her work(paintings) once they entered the context of the gallery; and why one particular painting in a show that was in a catalogue and getting so much attention during the run of the show…didn’t ultimately sell. [Claire has a show opening in Paris at Atelier Bergère on April 3rd, which will run until May 1st.]…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 The White Pube, featuring Gabrielle de la Puente, on 'Poor Artists' and more 1:11:39
1:11:39
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Gabrielle de la Puente , half of the art critic duo The White Pube , talks about: A few things people outside of the UK need to know about Liverpool, where she’s based; the origin story of the White Pube, when Gabrielle and Zarina were in art school together; the reputation of Central Saint Martins , the art school where they met, including where it was when they started school, which was already in a more gentrified, corporate atmosphere (they had to use key cards to get into the studios, for example); their working dynamic since their collaboration started, which involved more in-person activity early on when they were regularly in demand to talk about criticism at various art schools (because of how different they were from the clichés of an art critic), to now being more consistently using WhatsApp and ‘flying by the seat of our pants;’ how key it is that they post about culture-at-large, not just art (their film restaurant reviews have been their most read); her solo visit to a special preview of a Peter Doig show in Edinburgh that had a tragic quality to it, but also became a great symbol for the artist’s struggle; their book, Poor Artists , including how they wrote it with both readers as well as subjects who they interviewed (and paid), including a moment in the book when the narrator talks about their experience of a performance in a gallery; and the case of the late artist, Nat Tate. This podcast relies on listener support; please consider becoming a Patreon supporter of the podcast, for as little as $1/month, here: https://www.patreon.com/theconversationpod The Conversation was recently included in Feedspot’s list of top art podcasts . We’re grateful to make the list again!…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Taking a Break from Meta- please join me in Boycotting all Meta platforms this week 12:16
12:16
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After learning about the Lights Out Meta campaign, a boycott on all Meta platforms from January 19th thru January 26th, 2025, it sounded like a good idea, and after reading about it more extensively, I think it's a necessary one. Here are the articles I quote from in this one-off boycott episode: Meta's pivot to the right sparks boycotts and calls for a user exodus and- Lights Out Meta: R.E.M.’s Michael Stipe calls for Meta boycott to protest rise of US far-right and- Meta Boycott And TikTok Ban Could Signal Social Media's Transformation…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 370: Bullish on Miami 2024- SCOPE Art Show founder Alexis Hubshman 39:41
39:41
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Founder of the SCOPE Art Show , Alexis Hubshman talks about everything from its size (approx. 300,000 sq ft of exhibition space), to the number of galleries exhibited (95 from 27 countries) to how he makes the fair run smoothly; his support of new and emerging galleries, giving many of them rent-free booths, subsidized by their corporate sponsor partnerships; how he sees the accessibility of the art at Scope as a form of open-source experience, emphasizing being welcoming to visitors; how and why they’ve taken more nouveau-pop sensibilities out of the exhibition equation; he breaks down Scope’s Miami week as catering to: high-end collectors and museum curators on Tues. and Wed., Thurs. into Friday are for “culture shifters,” while Saturday and Sunday are a ‘come one, come all’ scenario; how when he got sober 15 years ago, he decided to limit Scope’s enterprise to Scope Miami (no more Basel, London, Hampton, L.A.), to both focus the work and to allow for his quality of life; how he’s able to attend the other fairs happening simultaneously in Miami, which he credits to his great team; the shift in the industry towards sobriety between the 90s/2000s to now, even showing more of a yoga-and-sound-bowls kind of morning these days for his team; and how bullish he feels (was feeling) going into the fairs, Scope specifically, based on the election, the location, the market generally and other intangibles.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#369: Cancel Culture Part 2 (Louis C.K.) and getting Stickered and Nan Goldin’s Gagosian show 37:56
37:56
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In the latest OLD NEWS roundup with Emily Colucci of Filthy Dreams, we start by revisiting our prior, charged exchanged about Louis CK, in which Emily was admittedly a bit of an apologist for him, which alienated some listeners- in this case, while we don’t land on the same page, we do air out our respective perspectives, and Emily dubs herself a contrarian. This leads to a brief discussion of the culture of heterodoxy, which promotes viewing issues from multiple angles as opposed to just your typical ideology; Emily’s interest in what she calls ‘the trash aesthetic,’ the pinnacle of which she explored by braving a late-October rally at Madison Square Garden featuring you-know-which-politician as the headliner, an event she ultimately describes as surprisingly boring; Emily’s own article (appearing in the Oct. 12th OLD NEWS), “GAGOSIAN-BRANDED STICKER MADE ME HATE NAN GOLDIN’S “YOU NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG,’ in which she critiques Goldin’s exhibition at Gagosian through the highly distorted lens of being made to cover up her phone’s camera lens with a Gagosian-branded sticker (and Emily now knows the impact of her blog post about it- which is that the gallery’s not going to do the sticker cover-up anymore); Emily shares her admiration for Goldin, not only her art but also her activism, through P.A.I.N. as well as that related to A.I.D.S. To hear this episode in its entirety, including bonus content on Gary Indiana, Libbie Mugrabi and more, go to: patreon.com/theconversationpod where you can support the podcast for as little as $1 a month…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Episode 368: Tulsa Kinney on her 18 years running Artillery magazine and her complicated relationship with the art world 36:06
36:06
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In Episode 368, Tulsa Kinney , artist and now former founding editor of Artillery magazine, talks about: Why she sold the magazine after running it for 18 years, including burnout but also how impersonal she feels the art world has become since its more modest size when the magazine began; the lack of support she/the magazine received from many galleries, while receiving support from institutions like the LA Philharmonic; the dual role she’s had as an art magazine editor and as an artist, and seeing the art world from both perspectives; how it’s been lovely being recognized (if not necessarily respected) when she walks into galleries; the pros and cons of running the magazine virtually, even though a print magazine; her highlights over the years running Artillery , including interviewing Mike Kelley, despite his writing an angry letter-to-the-editor for an unwanted call-out in the magazine’s gossip column (she did offer him a magazine retraction for the bit, which helped get him do to the interview), and what a breath of fresh air Tulsa says he was in the art world; getting the last interview with Mike Kelley, and the pushback she got for having him on the magazine’s cover when he took his life, as well as the lack of interest from the art world (including the Mike Kelley Foundation) in that interview as historical material…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 367: Lisa Schiff’s bankruptcy, trashing Paul McCarthy’s WS/White Snow, painting underground, and pairing smells with artworks-- OLD NEWS continues with co-host Emily Colucci. 35:33
35:33
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In our continued dissection of the OLD NEWS, Emily Colucci and I discuss: Indicted former art advisor Lisa Schiff and her upcoming bankruptcy auction, to be conducted by Phillips; how Paul McCarthy is slowly throwing out his immense artwork, WS (White Snow) , because he can’t store the work any longer, and how he failed to get any museums to buy the work, ultimately deciding to throw the work out piece by piece, which is, of course, logistically challenging (it takes up 4000 sq. ft of space and contains some very challenging- (read: yucky) ephemera); the art of Operation Under , a collective of artists who make wall paintings in underground tunnels throughout LA County, in one case the writer (Matt Stromberg of Hyperallergic) encounters racoons both in painted form as well as the in-real-life, glowing-eyes kind; how one museum took to pairing smells with a pre-Raphaelite artwork exhibition (including ‘dewy grass’), and how it led viewers to stay with the work a significantly longer period than traditional scent-less art viewing.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 366: Cancel Culture, an art/fireworks performance gone wrong, the art market, and strategic gallery going- Emily Colucci of Filthy Dreams co-hosts the OLD NEWS 42:57
42:57
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In the latest round of OLD NEWS with former guest Emily Colucci (creator of the art & culture website Filthy Dreams ), we cover: cancel culture through the lens of James Franco (who was part of our original recording back in 2016) and Louis C.K.; Cai Guo-Qiang’s botched fireworks performance at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum as part of PST Art’s ‘Science and Art’-themed mega-art event, including injured spectators; our own thoughts and feelings about fireworks, particularly of the neighborhood kind, and how Emily kind of loves the tacky spectacle of them; how California College of the Arts is considering closing its doors, and whether it’s surprising there aren’t more private art schools that are closing or on the verge of doing so; how and why the art market is struggling, and how Emily is frustrated that if nobody is selling anything anyway, why is everyone putting on boring shows?; how Emily tends not to interact with gallery-sitters/gallerinas, having been one herself (at Sikkema Jenkins) and just wanting the visitor to leave already; and our respective strategic approaches to gallery-hopping with an emphasis on efficiency and avoiding everything blurring together at the end of the day.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 365: Brooklyn artist Liz Ainslie: a coveted artist loft, scream-core singing, and artists who stay with the community even after success 59:14
59:14
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The Conversation is doing an Open Call for future guests of the show (thru Oct. 10th)- if you’re interested in being a guest, please submit here: "The Conversation Art Podcast" - Guest Open Call (jotform.com) Brooklyn artist, former hardcore-band singer, and recurring figure in Bianca Bosker’s ‘Get the Picture’), Liz Ainslie talks about: singing in the scream-core band Give Up while she was in college, including how she was able to maintain her vocal cords, and eventually crossing the divide in choosing between music and art; how she moved to Williamsburg, Brooklyn 20 years ago (eventually taking over the master lease of an artist loft after initially having several roommates), how the neighborhood has changed over the decades, and how and why so many of her artist peers have managed to remain in New York despite the high rents; how she’s currently organizing with her neighbors in the building to maintain the artist’s loft laws; how she and the artists in her community piece together income from various sources, only one of them being their artmaking, and how several successful artists in that community have stuck around (as opposed to moving upstate, for example) to both give back and to stay connected; her day job and how she’s able to work remotely, but still needs to find a coffee shop or other places to work away from her home; working for other artists, mainly in big Tribecca lofts, and the skills she learned, including the logistics of running professional artist studios; and how as an artist you should be very clear about everything from scheduling visits to respective responsibilities for artwork in your communications with fellow professionals.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Episode 364: Turner Prize-winner Jesse Darling may or may not keep making art; new OLD NEWS with co-host Dr. Maiza Hixson 1:05:34
1:05:34
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In this New OLD NEWS episode, Dr. Maiza Hixson and I talk about the profile of recent Turner Prize winner Jesse Darling in the New York Times-- We discuss Darling’s persona as portrayed in the article, his anti-capitalist leanings; what his future as an artist looks like, reading beyond what he says in the article towards his immediate future, having accepted an Oxford professorship; the public notoriety of the Turner Prize as compared with relative accolades in the U.S. (I claim that the Turner is much more public-facing than anything the U.S. offers, though Maiza claims that there are comparable points of recognition here in the States); and how Darling and his art are perceived by the public, both the NY Times public via the comments section, but also how contemporary art is taught, learned and thought about beyond the confines of the art world itself.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 363- Friendship and Fraud in the Art World, with author and former art dealer Orlando Whitfield 46:07
46:07
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Writer, former art dealer, and author of All that Glitters- A Story of Friendship, Fraud, and Fine Art , Orlando Whitfield talks about: His interest in street photography, and how philosophy and critical thinking led him to apply and then attend Goldsmith’s College; a quick update on his former friend, co-worker, collaborator and employer Inigo Philbrick, who in the book was sentenced to seven years in prison but has since been released, and how he sent a heckler to one of Orlando’s book readings; how and why Orlando feels Philbrick has changed since the time of their friendship and working relationship, particularly in the last 7 years, about the time that he began committing fraud in his private art dealings; the various ways Orlando wasn’t cut out to be a dealer, particularly the perpetual let-downs after a seemingly very interested buyer (from a pool of too wealthy, feckless, collectors) suddenly pulls out, and how 9 out 10 deals die on the vine; the challenge of indoctrinating new collectors from his and his gallerist partner’s (Ben Hunter) friends- they could either go on holiday or buy art, not both, and so opted for the former; his involvement in a complex secondary market sale of a Christopher Wool work on paper, including the various stresses and complexities which ultimately, even though lucrative for Orlando, made him feel like a fraud. To listen to the full episode with Orlando Whitfield, please become a Patreon supporter of the podcast here: https://www.patreon.com/theconversationpod In the 2nd half of the episode, available to Patreon subscribers, Orlando discusses: The very wealthy inhabitants of the art world, many of whom Orlando encountered, and their separation from, and sometimes even contempt for, those who aren’t also rich themselves; how in his transition to becoming a writer, he’s found the writing world/community much more open and welcoming than the art world; how he finds the way the art world operates is like an aristocracy, where you’re not told the rules until you’ve broken them; how All that Glitters has sold well thus far in the U.K., and how the rights have been purchased for television by a UK production company; and who Orlando thinks should play Orlando, who Inigo thinks should play Inigo, and who I think should play Inigo in the film version of the book.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Art protests, artist ruptures and Miranda July: the latest OLD NEWS w/special guest Maiza Hixson 1:09:07
1:09:07
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In Episode 362, artist, curator and recent PhD (from U.C. Santa Barbara) Maiza Hixson co-hosts this episode’s OLD NEWS, featuring updates on: protests, including the case of #metoo being spray-painted onto Gustave Courbet’s painting ‘Origin de monde,’ and how the article had a correction stating that the image was of a vulva , rather than a vagina ; the sentencing of a woman who was involved in the vandalism of a Degas sculpture in Washington, D.C.; the vandalism on the façade of the home of Brooklyn Museum director Ann Pasternak, and how these protesters are attempting to draw attention to the various corporate ties in the art world; protests and letters relating to the war in Gaza, and the very powerful people who are influencing university protests and various politics through corporate channels; the Kehinde Wiley controversy related to accusations of sexual assault made against him; the work of the Yes Men , and how it’s not about disruption, it is disruption, as exemplified in a recent intervention at a fundraising event involving a new housing development; how Maurizio Cattelan’s recent bullet-hole sculptures represent the insular culture of the art world; how Leonardo da Vinci was in the vanguard of eating, in that he was one of our early vegetarians; and whether we can qualify artists as being progressives, including taking a closer look at their carbon footprints; and the wide-ranging art and fandom of Miranda July.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 361- Adam Henry on what makes a successful show, and navigating the fluctuations of the art market 47:53
47:53
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To listen to the complete episode with Adam Henry as well as all past Bonus episodes, please become a Patreon supporter of the podcast here: https://www.patreon.com/theconversationpod New York-based artist Adam Henry talks about: His recently ended show at Candice Madey gallery, and how he defines a ‘successful show’ (a mix of sales, critical dialogue generated, and future opportunities); the advantages of having a fellow artist as a partner, but how it’s also necessary to get alone time when you need it, including time for processing after you’ve had a show, which has included the fact that this is the first time he’s shown work whose meaning he doesn’t fully understand, and the first time he’s comfortable saying that; how one of the most powerful experiences you can have with art, is to have your mind changed; how important the process of perception is to him and his work, and how his journey through perception started with color theory and Josef Albers and wound up with Wittgenstein, and eventually he wound up in psychedelics; how his making abstract work during the rise of process-based abstraction (aka zombie formalism) was challenging in that he had far fewer opportunities because of the market shift; how important it is to put the emphasis on the intention of the artwork when viewing work, as opposed to the person who made it or the value; how his partner, who is also a painter – a figurative painter, in fact – has at times been the breadwinner of the two, and vice versa, which has served them both well; the great exchanges he and his wife have about the exhibitions they view together.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 360- How to Navigate Downward Mobility as an Art Worker- Valerie Werder, Part 2 1:09:15
1:09:15
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In the 2nd conversation with author, recovering art worker and academic Valerie Werder , she talks about: the travails of clothes shopping for her job in the blue-chip gallery, not only how fraught it was but how much it brought up class issues as she moved through the sartorial gauntlet, where her appearance as a frosty, inaccessible object was part of her role; the complicated variations of class when it comes to precarity and poverty, including a culture where those who are cultivating an aesthetic of bohemianism or even poverty are existing alongside those who are actually financially poor, the latter of whom sometimes don’t even have culture on their radar; her fictional and, perhaps, real relationship with the enigmatic character ‘Ted’ from her book Thieves , which is complex in its values, dependency, and deceptions, and which coincided with her own attraction to anarchism and anti-capitalism, and how ‘Ted’ in some ways embodied these tendencies; the complex social roles and hierarchies that Valerie is living within, and the experience of downward mobility while simultaneously being connected with an upper echelon of culture; how transitioning to the hierarchies and bureaucracies of Harvard was fairly smooth and easy after being in the blue-chip NY gallery world; and how while she still sporadically writes about art, she’s for all intents and purposes stepped out of the art world proper. NOTE: in the Bonus episode w/Valerie, she talks all about the very real shoplifting she participated in and is a main feature in Thieves .…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Journalist Bianca Bosker: a ‘normie Philistine’ dives into the art world working for artists, dealers and as a museum security guard in attempt to unravel its mysteries 1:06:36
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Bianca Bosker , journalist and author of Get the Picture , talks about: The genesis of her deep dive into the art world - working with gallerists and artists, doing art fairs and galleries with collectors, and doing a stint as a security guard at the Guggenheim Museum – which largely came out of her need to learn whether she could learn to ‘see’ like an artist, as opposed to a ‘normie Philistine,’ as she was called by many (she was also, as a journalist, called “the enemy”); the elitism, opacity and various exclusionary art world rules she discovered from dealers and artists she encountered through her immersion process, and how “dishearteningly little” artists themselves often knew about how the art world works; how parts of the art world use secrecy as part of their survival, to build mystique, among other reasons; how she worked for five different artists in the course of researching the book, but ultimately only wrote explicitly about two – Julie Curtiss and Amana Alfieri – in the book; how Context – everything about the artist (social cache, etc.) EXCEPT the art itself is often overly valued, and something she pushed back against; how she was drawn to working with emerging artists, and wound up working with the painter Julie Curtiss at a turning point moment in her career, in which she was both starting to make a living from her work but also getting bullied on social media for her work’s huge price escalation on the secondary market; how brave it was for Julie to let Bianca so thoroughly into her studio and make herself so vulnerable; and why she got so pumped after making sales while on the floor of the Untitled Art Fair with Denny Dimin gallery, without actually getting any payment for those sales (due to journalistic integrity).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Valerie Werder turns her intense years working for a blue-chip gallery into an inspired novel, Thieves 56:21
56:21
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This episode features the 1st half of the full episode. To get the full version, please visit: Patreon.com/theconversationpod The Conversation Art Podcast | creating a podcast that goes behind the scenes of the art worlds | Patreon Recovering art worker and author of the novel Thieves , Valerie Werder talks about: Her entrance into the art world via her demanding position at a fancy gallery in her attempt, as a newbie, to get access and proximity to the art world; her ability to conform and comply under pressure (in the gallery environment), and the what the flip side of that looks like; what the coercion, that came thru various forms of care and the engendering of a ‘family’ dynamic at the gallery, looked like and how it played out, including through fancy paid meals and credit for fancy clothes so she could look and act the part; how working at a gallery gave her a completely different relationship to language, including the quick turnaround she had to produce, becoming a ‘language producing machine’ in the process; the craft of writing a gallery press release, and how she ultimately became, upon writing her novel, the ‘commodity’ herself that she in turn needed to sell. In the 2nd half of the episode, Valerie talks about: her creative workarounds to promote her book, including using two very different kinds of publicists, and how throughout her professional career she’s been aware of and pushed against the given economic constraints, and how she believes it’s important to be explicit and unashamed about everything from her day jobs to the creation of her (writing) brand; the difference between the mythologizing/branding of artists back in the days of a much smaller (yet cut-throat) New York art world (of Donald Judd, Robert Smithson and Walter De Maria et al.) and the more diffuse, digital world of today, and how in her book she wanted to explore the legacy and imprint of the peripheral art world figure ‘Valerie’ the character who herself was invisible but whose writing, through catalogues and press releases, was/is all over the art world, and in the process the real Valerie the writer becomes a visible figure, a brand herself; the strange relationship she had with her former gallerist boss, whom she became the voice for in press releases and personal emails and even interviews, and how she studied her and had the writings of her voice vetted by the gallerist herself, for which she was valued highly for absolutely being ‘her voice;’ how she wrote her book on an ‘unpaid sabbatical’ from her job at the gallery, in a friend’s cabin in Tennessee, and the complicated circumstances in which she quick her job upon returning from that ‘sabbatical,’ which she told the gallery was an artist residency; her doubts about whether her gallerist employer read her book ( Thieves ); the actual front desk worker (aka gallerina) protocol employed at the gallery where she worked, as far as how to treat different people who came into the gallery, whether they were VIPs who should be greeted by name (through the gallerina memorizing the faces of those collectors) or lowly artists/nobodies who could be ignored; her experience getting a once-over from a wealthy collector at the gallery, and giving that once-over right back to him; Frank Stella and his provocative artwork titling, and how it somehow wasn’t Valerie’s job to really do research about his work, despite the gallery selling it.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 357- Seattle artist Debra Broz on her studio routines, love of work as well as successfully navigating "the feel bad machine" that is Instagram 1:27:01
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Seattle-based artist and restorer Debra Broz talks about: Living in Seattle, where she moved to from Los Angeles a year and a half prior to our call; how Seattle is full of rule-followers who are also anarchists/anti-capitalists; how she found her Seattle studio, where it was important to have decent heat, especially for her sculptures; her reasons for leaving L.A. for Seattle, and some of the lifestyle differences between the two cities, and how welcoming Seattle has been to her as a new artist; how various sites, specifically Colossal and the Jealous Curator, have been huge in growing her art & design-focused Instagram followers; her pacing and general approach towards her IG feed, where she’s made peace with the fact that she can only go as fast as she can go, nor does she want to try and gamify the system, and how, ultimately, IG is a “feel bad machine;” how Instagram has been punishing people who use it to have sales; the “ enshitification ” of apps (including IG and Tik Tok) and how it’s made our experiences on them so much worse; her sculptures, made from ceramic figurines, which were originally made for American middle-class homes; how the best places to find her sculptural elements are “out in the wild,” i.e. thrift stores, as well as friends giving her objects, which is her favorite way to acquire her materials; the “if we look for what we need, we’ll find it” serendipity that’s a driving force in Debra’s making process; and how the meme, “I didn’t realize being an artist was making the same thing 1000 times until you die,” is a sentiment very familiar to most artists.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Zombie Formalism, Debt aesthetics, and AI & Art: New Yorker writer/critic Chris Wiley 1:44:44
1:44:44
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Chris Wiley - Artist, New Yorker photography critic, and contributing editor at Frieze - talks about: His fleeing upstate to the Catskills during the pandemic, and what his relative disconnect from the art world and the city has been like since the move (though he still keeps a small apt. in the city); the differences between English and American artists in terms of academia vs. the market; his epic two-part articles on Zombie Formalism, which covered not just the movement as a market phenomenon but also what it’s led to, including economic precarity and eventually what Wiley has dubbed ‘debt aesthetics;’ the term from the Crypto phenomenon that Wiley applies to many artists of Zombie Formalism, ‘Walk Away Like a Boss,’ to describe those who were able to earn a very solid chunk of money over their brief careers, often parking it in real estate for long-term security; how Zombie Formalist paintings were, as he put it, “’fast, fungible and friendly,’ just like what currency is;” artists who have the ‘it’ factor, an authenticity demonstrating they would be making their art no matter what; the great promise of a Universal Basic Income for artists, particularly in the context of a debt aesthetics that virtually forces artists to compromise their visions instead of getting to be weirdos; his current thoughts on the implications of AI, which he’s been interested in for a long time, having a father who was interested in computers and science fiction when he was growing up; how and whether artists will be safe in terms of jobs and sustainability in an A.I.-dominant landscape, and how the art world isn’t ready for the kind of speed with which A.I. advances will affect art; the AI-generated photography of Charlie Engman, who has been making a bizarre and prolific body of work using the platform Midjourney, despite being a ‘technophobe,’ in his own words; the challenged viability of a career as an editorial photographer with the rise of A.I.; and how his article on A.I. and Charlie’s work, in The New Yorker , pissed a LOT of people off, and why.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis: 354- the Art Thief, the remarkable story of art history's most prolific stealer, with author Michael Finkel 1:24:04
1:24:04
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Michael Finkel discusses the remarkable story of Stéphane Breitwieser , the subject of his recent book, The Art Thief , including: The genesis of the book project, starting with a three-paragraph article, and eventually turning into a 10+ year-project; the style and methods of theft that Breitwieser and his partner, Anne-Catherine Kleinklaus, put to work; Michael’s favorite Breitwieser crimes; his widely oscillating perception of Breitwieser, from a selfish brat to ‘the best art professor I’ve ever had;’ how Breitwieser protected both Anne-Catherine and his mother by lying on their behalf, but ultimately told the truth to authorities when it came to his own role in the crime sprees; Breitwieser’s Icarus-like trajectory playing out over several years as a result of his increasing addiction to art theft; a teaser of an ongoing plot point related to one of the Art Thief’s main characters, one which may very well be revealed in the soft cover release of the book; and how what Breitwieser and Christopher Knight, the protagonist of Finkel’s earlier book, The Stranger in the Woods , have in common is that they’re extreme outliers who make their own rules.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 351- veteran co-host Deb Klowden Mann joins to discuss Money on the Wall, an epic profile of dealer Larry Gagosian 1:30:34
1:30:34
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This special episode features return-guest-but-more-co-host Deb Klowden Mann to discuss the recent New Yorker profile of mega-dealer Larry Gagosian . Deb starts us off by updating us on her closing of her eponymous gallery due to multiple health issues, which made the work unsustainable. We follow that update with our discussion of the article, including: Our respective histories with Gagosian and/or his collectors mentioned in the article; how Gagosian’s decision to allow the profile may be because it humanizes him to the audience, but also, as Deb proposes, to make him and the gallery more appealing to younger artists they could possibly take on; Deb sites a book from the early ‘80s, “The Art Dealers: The Powers Behind the Scene Tell How the Art World Really Works,” which illustrates how when it comes to collectors treating art as investments, it’s been happening for nearly 200 years; how the funding that goes to high-priced artworks sometimes comes from the same people who fund grants/grant foundations, Deb suggests, and she advocates for a more transparent, as well as more evenly distributed financial model for the art world(s); Gagosian’s gallery courtship of the English artist Issy Wood, and what that scenario points to as far as his courtship process, the future of the gallery and his legacy plans, and the vulnerability apparent in that dynamic; Deb’s desire for more really well researched and written pieces (like this one by Patrick Radden Keefe) about how everything works in the art world; and finally, Deb brings up the book The Art of Death as a counterpoint to one’s amassing of power and wealth to stave off mortality, because in many cultures up until the 1800’s, one of the main functions of art was in fact to help people understand death as part of life and prepare them for it.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis: 349- Narsiso Martinez on his epic story from Oaxaca to California, from picking produce in the fields to becoming a full-time artist 1:37:11
1:37:11
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Long Beach-based artist and former produce field worker Narsiso Martinez talks about: Growing up in a small town in Oaxaca, Mexico (Santa Cruz Papalutla), with several brothers and sisters, and a mom and dad who were often on the road for work; his resistance and questioning of working in the fields, something his family did when he was growing up as a way to have food on hand in tighter times; a very condensed version of his travails in crossing the border from Mexico into the U.S., which took him 4 tries to do; his initial settling in Los Angeles with one of his brothers, who is in the car upholstery business; going to an adult high school to learn English as well as other classes, on his way to going to Cal State Long Beach for an undergraduate, and eventually an MFA degree; how he made his adult high school studies a higher priority than his day jobs, so if a job conflicted with school, he would leave the job; his ups and downs at LA City College, where he got his associate degree and may have gone into biology if it wasn’t for his lack of resident papers; what it was like working in the fields – physically as well as mentally – up in Washington state, where he picked produce including asparagus, cherries and apples, both for one full year, as well as over the summers between Cal State Long Beach school years; his gradual discovery of produce boxes that became the surfaces/objects for his paintings, starting with collecting a few boxes from a Costco; his complex thoughts and feelings about class differences, including thinking of himself as something of a role model for who people can become, as well as the importance of education, and family support, in making his long journey, which he describes as many different lives.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis: 347- Alexis Rockman on 'owning' natural history 1:03:27
1:03:27
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Connecticut- and New York City-based artist Alexis Rockman talks about: His semi-exodus from Manhattan, where he’s lived his whole life, to a fairly rural part of Connecticut called Warren; leaving his Tribeca studio of 33 years and building a new one on the property of their house in Warren; his early love and interest in animals through his anthropologist mom’s encouragement which led to everything from keeping fish, turtles and iguanas in his childhood room to going scuba diving and spending a lot of time in Australia, where his stepfather was from, encountering wombats, Komodo dragons, and large flightless birds; his appreciation of science fiction movies of the late 60s and early 70s, and how the ideas in those movies were an influence on his apocalyptic paintings; the origins of his painting ‘Manifest Destiny,’ which is in the collection of the Smithsonian Museum; his recent work, which is in conversation with historic painters – Courbet, Clyfford Still, Peder Balke – and the joy of painting in addition to addressing climate change; how he jumped for joy for ‘owning’ natural history, as a painter, when he first established his artistic vision at the start of his career in the mid-1980s; working as a vision artist for films, including Life of Pi and the remake of the Little Mermaid; and how he feels about his relative ‘fame,’ and the ebbs and flows of success.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis: 345- House-hunting with a Billionaire 1:44:12
1:44:12
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Hungarian billionaire Gabriela and artist and architect Andi Schmied talk about: Andi’s residencies, across Asia and Europe, as well as the Triangle Arts residency in DUMBO, Brooklyn, where she first connected with her fellow Hungarian, the billionaire Gabriela; some of the developments around the world that led her to the realization that there’s a glut of useless, ultra-wealthy housing that’s not actually being used, particularly a complex of villas about 100 miles outside of Beijing, where the groundskeepers wound up squatting in the empty units; doing a residency in New York in 2016, when she encountered Gabriela for the first time, who would become her key collaborator for what would her project ‘ Private Views ;’ the world of ultra-high end real estate, including the dynamics of a real estate agent showing a penthouse apartment of a very tall building to a client, and how Gabriela navigated these experiences; the questions the real estate agents showing these penthouses and other very expensive apartments asked, and what that revealed about the world of the ultra-wealthy; the various ways super-tall buildings in Manhattan are impacting everything from income inequality to changing the flora and fauna in Central Park from the long shadows they cast.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Art Adivisor Lisa Schiff- a Re-Release of Episode 99 from 2015 1:00:26
1:00:26
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Art Advisor Lisa Schiff has been in the news over the last two weeks, because of lawsuits being filed against her by clients who weren't given the artworks they paid for, and Schiff has subsequently filed for bankruptcy. How did this happen? Was there any indication, from the warm and thoughtful conversation I had with her in late 2014, that anything like this would happen down the road? We re-visit Episode 99, from early 2015.…
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1 Epis: 343- Flora, Public Art and loving New York even if NY doesn’t love you back: Brooklyn-based artist Nancy Blum 1:25:07
1:25:07
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Brooklyn-based artist Nancy Blum talks about: Her relationship with Judaism, both growing up and as an adult, where her exploration of healing and self-soothing from generational trauma, which ultimately connects with her art; her alternative interpretation of the word ‘therapeutic,’ in relation to art-making, how it can be something deeply personal that artists are trying to share; the use of flowers in her work, which was radical when she started using them 20 years ago, and how their use has risen since the pandemic; her experience making it work as an artist in New York City, where she’s settled after many years living and working as a nomad; how artists can now have successful, legitimate careers anywhere in the U.S., and why she’s chosen to live in NY because it meets her needs and she loves it, even if it doesn’t love her; bringing a Buddhist approach to the way she thinks about her work can career, and how important it is for artists to have the tools to deal with discouragement so that they keep going; questioning what defines success for an artist, and how the distorted perceived norms of success and what we should be or have become vehicles of defeat and low self-esteem for artists; how meaningful it’s been for her to make the public art mosaic for the 28th Street Subway station, and how she wants her public works to do the work- healing, bringing joy to people, etc. – for her; her earliest public projects, which got her into making public art; and why university art teaching was unsustainable as part of her career path.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 In-Between Episode including fresh OLD NEWS 14:12
14:12
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In this in-between (342 and 343) episode, I talk about the new Bonus Episode with Stefanie Kogler-Heimburger (for subscribers only), and recent OLD NEWS including a photo contest winner who used AI to generate his image and subsequently withdrew his win; a successful Union strike at RISD; and art vs. advertising in the form of a muffin mural for a bakery in Conway, New Hampshire. To access the newest Bonus Episode 342 plus all other past Subscriber-only episodes, become a Patreon donor for as little as $1 a month by subscribing here: The Conversation Art Podcast | creating a podcast that goes behind the scenes of the art worlds | Patreon…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 341: Class Issues- artists and class with Berlin artist Norbert Witzgall 1:19:01
1:19:01
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Berlin-based artist and co-curator of the exhibition ‘ Class Issues: Art Production in and out of Precarity ,’ Norbert Witzgall talks about: The term/phenomenon of “Hope Labor,” which drives the economy of fine art and is based on the presumption that your hard work will pay off when you ‘make it;’ how Berlin has become prohibitively expensive for artists, which among other things has led to artists creating platforms such as the Ministry for Empathy to help artists in need; mental health in connection with artists’ labor conditions; the challenge for migrants in getting German grants, largely because of accessibility and knowledge; the intersectionality of exclusion, which is essentially how access includes less frequently acknowledged statuses such as class background and housing in addition to race and gender; art’s struggle to represent the society at large, using the example that there are no Germans of Turkish descent who are recognized in the art world; homeless artists, in particular a German collective, ‘Anonymous,’ included in ‘Class Issues;’ the poverty of some artists in old age; the transparency they used in ‘Class Issues,’ including production costs for the artworks, the family background of the artist, and what an artist’s pension is/will be; his at one time 11 simultaneous freelance jobs, which meant a big ‘class journey,’ or class switching, between gigs; his decision to re-train as a fine arts school teacher, which he started but then left at 19, coming back this time because he has the life experience to bring with him; and the hope that we can decrease the amount of ‘hope labor’ being put out by many, many artists.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 The Conversation MIDWAY- Bonus episode announcement, plus a rant on the art services industry 14:30
14:30
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In this Conversation MIDWAY - between epis. 340 and 341 - I talk about the bonus episode for Patreons, featuring Blum-Weinberg-Keinholz-Rottweiler, as well as talk about the art services industry via the Worst Job Posting Ever Created, the Nan Goldin documentary, and Tom Sachs, among other related topics. If you would like to access Episode 340A, which features four great stories from Art Can Kill, you can support The Conversation on Patreon here: The Conversation Art Podcast | creating a podcast that goes behind the scenes of the art worlds | Patreon…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 340: Veteran art handler Bryan Cooke on 50+ years in the art handling business, including several brushes with death 1:21:54
1:21:54
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Episode 340- Veteran art handler and preparator Bryan Cooke talks about: Cooke’s Crating , the business he started back in 1975, and how it’s essentially a service business, one that has grown with the art market, particularly in the last 10 years; why they don’t use the word ‘art’ in the company title, and how they discreetly move art around, especially high-priced works; how and why he self-published his book, Art Can Kill ; some of his near-death experiences in art handling, including two involving elevators (one of my least favorite places); why he put himself in the line of risk, shielding his employees from danger; and he tells a condensed version of an epic story from the book in which a client for all intents and purposes kidnaps Bryan and his colleague during a moving job, on a large estate outside Chicago.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Preview/Teaser for Epis. 339A- Art Can Kill: The Art World's Crooks, Clowns & Connossieurs 13:55
13:55
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In this Teaser for Episode 339A, which is only available to Patreon supporters of the show, we talk about becoming a supporter of the show, read from a bit of the intro to the book Art Can Kill, and talk about the comments from an article on the collector Adam Lindeman's upcoming March 9th auction at Christie's. If you would like to access Episode 339A, which features three great stories from Art Can Kill, by Bryan Cooke (an upcoming guest on the podcast), you can support The Conversation on Patreon here: The Conversation Art Podcast | creating a podcast that goes behind the scenes of the art worlds | Patreon…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 338: Former pro surfer and current arts writer Jamie Brisick on why success is its own form of failure, and Raymond Pettibon, Paul Chan and Francis Alys, among others 1:16:58
1:16:58
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Arts writer and former professional surfer Jamie Brisick talks about: w hat it was like being on the pro surfing tour back in his late teens and early 20s, and how he developed his Plan B career initially as a surfing writer before moving into arts & culture writing; how he comes to art/the art world with a relatively fresh perspective, and has experienced some unsavoriness in the upper spheres in its being too much like high school in terms of popularity, etc.; what it means when, to quote the artist Paul Chan in this case, ‘Success is its own form of failure;’ the varied and fascinating work of Francis Alÿs, whom Brisick tried to get an interview with but was essentially blown off, but whom he still highly respects and reveres as an artist; the artworks, storytelling, and other idiosyncrasies of quintessential surfing-art artist, Raymond Pettibon, whom Brisick has profiled extensively and become friends with; the surf-skate pioneer Craig Stecyk (also a mentor of Brisick’s) and his crazy performance art stunts; and his relationship with the journalist and writer William Finnegan, whose struggle with his memoir may be a source of inspiration for listeners.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 337: Art & Politics- how can they co-exist? The Conversation's 14th Virtual Cafe 1:50:54
1:50:54
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n the 14th installment of the podcast’s Virtual Café, we take as our prompt a Dec. review by NYTimes art critic Holland Cotter about politics in art: About 10 artists in the Virtual Café (including past guests Ianna Frisby of Art Advice and William Powhida) talk about art and politics, including successful examples of political art; the nimbleness of capitalism to absorb all things protest; the challenges and failures of artists to organize, particularly artist unions; the question of whether artwork being in a gallery is neutered, in terms of its political/social power; virtue signaling in art, particularly political art; Theaster Gates as a strong example of an artist changing a community, and of socially engaged art; the importance of the rhetoric around so-called political art (including the good side of the word ‘didactic'); the lack of transparency in galleries reporting where their donations to (political) causes are allocated; and how to take political art to the people, as opposed to through the gallery system.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 336: on The Death of the Artist, a frank conversation with writer and cultural critic William Deresiewicz 1:31:33
1:31:33
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Writer and cultural critic William Deresiewicz , author of The Death of the Artist , talks about: His motivations in writing the book, largely motivated by dispelling the myth that this (our current internet/social media era) was the greatest time ever to be an artist, as well as trying to understand how artists (not just visual, artists across all fields- writing, music, film & television) were adapting to making art and surviving in an this world; why he strongly believes that not everyone can be an artist; how and why the monopoly on taste has been broken through a more middle-brow level of connoisseurship; how we can’t dispense with the gatekeeper, whether it’s the curator of artists or our listening playlists; artists’ relative comfort (or discomfort) with using social media, which isn’t as tied to age as you would think; the wide variety of day jobs that artists do (including a list of 50 jobs/gigs that Deresiewicz compiled), and the degrees of poverty artists live with; the delicate and complex dynamic of artists walking away from being artists (which is of course very hard to document); the artist Paul Rucker (perhaps the only artist profiled in the book whom I should have heard of) who’s had a wide-ranging and remarkable career; the challenge of finding and working with the ‘typical’ working artist- artists whose careers were coming up but not yet well known; and what a solid work-lifestyle balance looks like for one of the artists in the book, as well as for Deresiewicz himself.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 335: Mashed potatoes hurled at Monet, Artists being replaced by AI Robots, a Bad Studio Visit cartoon, and new email etiquette for the Uffizi Gallery, with a very special guest-host 1:04:16
1:04:16
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For this latest roundup of OLD NEWS stories, we’re joined by a very special guest, to talk about: The MASS MoCA union; the new monument to the Central Park 5; the debate about bringing attention to the climate crisis by throwing food and attaching body parts to famous artworks in museum, as analyzed by Jerry Saltz in his piece ‘MASHED POTATOES MEET MONET,’ as well as through our own lenses on the phenomenon; how a stolen painting was turned into a popular throw pillow (which you can purchase online for $18.40 plus shipping); the struggles of Pace Gallery’s Superblue, and the history of Pace through the Glimcher family, including a botched diversity hiring of Marc Glimcher’s daughter; Guy Richards Smit’s cartoon, “WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEONE AFTER A VERY BAD STUDIO VISIT?”; a consideration of big tech’s plundering of art and illustration for its generative AI projects, as poetically analyzed through Molly Crabapple’s LA Times Op-Ed, “BEWARE A WORLD WHERE ARTISTS ARE REPLACED BY ROBOTS;” why the director of Florence’s Uffizi Gallery is demanding employees follow strict guidelines for email etiquette; and what our respective OLD NEWS favorites for the week were.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 334: The challenges in green-lighting public art that’s actually good- curator and arts administrator Zoë Taleporos 51:47
51:47
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Oakland-based curator and arts administrator Zoë Taleporos talks about: Her straddling independent curating and government-supported public art curating/administrating in her role working for the City of Berkeley; how her curating is more about bringing artists in, as artist outreach, but not cultural gatekeeping; why public art looks the way it does, and why the language of public art has remained unchanged for so long, as well as the problems professionals are faced with in trying to change the face of public art; how one sculpture in San Francisco, while avoiding the problem of becoming a target for skateboarding, but instead became an ad-hoc BMX bike ramp; the alternative and more interesting version of public art: temporary public art, which allows a lot more flexibility and freedom; how panelists judge all public art candidates (Zoë has presented) by a list of criteria, and how she’s always in the room, but never voting as a panelist; the tension in the room when panelists with a wide range of experience with contemporary art weigh in on the candidates who are submitted; the strong mural history and presence in the Bay Area, which are not necessarily a deterrent to graffiti; and how it’s exciting for her to take a given artist’s work and translate it into public art.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#333- Tjebbe Beekman, Amsterdam-based artist on how a major life turning point became a turning point for his art 52:08
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Amsterdam-based artist Tjebbe Beekman talks about: His show in New York at GRIMM gallery (which just opened when we spoke); his 9-year stint living in Berlin, before moving back to Amsterdam at the time his son was beginning school, and how he misses the big-city benefits of Berlin; the big turning point in his work and in his life, when in a span of less than a couple of years his mother died followed by his father’s tragic death in a boating accident, early on in a journey attempting to travel the world; how his father’s death was complicated by the slow to non-existent communication about what happened, and then the time it took to get his remains back, all of which led him to stop painting for half a year; how he re-engaged his artmaking by visiting friends at the Luceberthuis residency in the Netherlands, where he also found himself listening to a lot of John Coltrane, and between the music and getting in the heads of well-known painters, he got his mojo back; the influence the legendary painter Luc Tuymans had on him while doing a residency at the Rijksakademie; and how he’s thankful to make a living from his work, because even though the Netherlands offers lots of funding to artists, most artists who rely on it need to have 2nd jobs.…
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1 Epis. 332: U. of Michigan art historian/scholar Joan Kee on Korean contemporary art, emojis, and going through law school & corporate law on her way to becoming an art historian 1:21:20
1:21:20
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Joan Kee , University of Michigan art historian and current Ford Foundation Scholar in Residence at the Museum of Modern Art, talks about: Her residency at MoMA, where she has been looking into expanding their programming to include art that is more international/not from the U.S., but from the ‘global majority;’ her career trajectory, from art history in undergrad to law school and then corporate lawyer for long enough to pay off her $100+K in debt, a calculation she was able to make partially due to her poker-playing experience); the obstacles she faced getting into a PhD art history program with her focus on modern and contemporary Korean art, and how she strongly believes that tuition for BA and MA programs are completely out of control (for out-of-state students at U. or Michigan, where she teaches, it’s currently 70K/year); her interest and expertise with emojis, including her repeated attempts to get a kimchi emoji approved by Unicode, the world text and emoji consortium (she also taught emojis in a graduate seminar); artists working in emojis, including Rachel Maclean, Laura Owens, John Baldessari and Antoine Catala, the latter whose work she calls the best emoji work she’s ever seen; the benefits and challenges of living in Detroit, and why she chose to live there instead of Ann Arbor, where she teaches; how she’s the first full professor of color in her department; how her book, “Contemporary Korean Art: Tansaekhwa and the Urgency of Method,” was turned down nine times before it was accepted by U. of Minnesota Press, and subsequently led to a show she curated at Blum & Poe in L.A.; and the state of the art scene in Seoul, including the challenges for younger/smaller galleries’ survival amidst a pricey real estate market that’s regularly gentrifying.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 ICA San Diego director Andrew Utt: on the curatorial process, and how to increase the art reputation of a city not known for its art world 1:27:00
1:27:00
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ICA San Diego director Andrew Utt talks about: Moving back to San Diego, where he grew up, after years away in the Bay Area and South America, and why he did; why San Diego’s art community/culture isn’t known as an art destination, and how he tries to address that deficiency; his route to becoming a curator, starting with his undergrad years at California College of the Arts, when he went to grad students’ studios and had the conversations that would inform his prolific studio visits over the years; the importance of bringing in outside artists, sometimes to be shown alongside local artists, but at the same time, the ‘brain drain’ of artists emerging from SD-based art schools and leaving for L.A. (or elsewhere) for more opportunities, the exodus of which becomes a generational loss over time; teaching artists, and the challenge of their retention; the ICA’s 5-foot and 10-foot rules for interacting with new visitors outside the museum; and where art engagement is headed, in terms of infiltrating cities, and through the growth of VR, AI and other interactive platforms.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.330: Cole Sternberg, from painting with the elements to his Free Republic of California project to moving to a farm during the pandemic 1:31:19
1:31:19
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Cole Sternberg, artist and creator of the Free Republic of California , talks about: His painting process, which involves exposing his paintings to the elements, including in extreme form, starting with his (and his team’s) 22-day-long journey from Japan to the West Coast on a container vessel, exposing his paintings to the wind and even skating them over the surface of the ocean; what went into planning this expedition, the various friends he brought on in professional capacities, and the challenges of making the journey, the successes along the way, and its future life as a documentary; his epic Free Republic of California, a conceptual art project that uses California as a canvas to imagine and explore what’s possible for us as a society and as a civilization; how he writes letters to people in power, giving himself a title appropriate to each recipient, whether ‘conceptual artist’ or ‘chief conceptualist;’ the value he places in the Free Republic of California ’s Constitution, which is the item he would own if he were to collect his own work; his relative openness to actually becoming a politician, while also realizing that the political sphere is not only too dangerous but ultimately simply not a productive route to making change; his first exhibition, in a bar during law school; his transition from having a day job as a lawyer to that of an artist, and how he actually never made as much income from law as from making art, surprisingly; and his rescue-animal-based farm in Santa Ynez, where he and his family settled during the pandemic. BONUS EXTRA: in an extension of our conversation, Cole talks about his epic t-shirt collection, which is currently at about 1000. To listen to this EXTRA, please consider becoming an ongoing or one-time donor to the podcast via: theconversationpod.com/support…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.329: Ben Davis on the Ordinary World Record Egg, what to do when Apple co-opts your artwork, and where high art meets immersive art 1:04:16
1:04:16
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In part 2 with ArtNet News critic Ben Davis, we talk about: environmentalism and our approach to the climate, as well his emphasis on finding a good middle ground between overly dire and overly sugar-coated perspectives on the conversation; Christian Marclay’s video works “Telephone” – which Apple co-opted, making their own version when Marclay wouldn’t sell it to them – and “The Clock,” which Ben considers to be Marclay’s response to Apple and its iPhone, and images’ ‘place-lessness’ (which “The Clock” returns to us); how he frames the immersive art trend as a question of ‘what’s at stake here?,’ and how there are many trends that he feels needs to be seen from both sides; Alfredo Jaar’s immersive video in the most recent Whitney Biennial, prompted by the very short time window artists now have to gain viewers’ attention; the case of the lovably ordinary @world_record_egg, an Instagram feed that both parodied and addressed concerns about the effects of social media on our individual psyches as an artistic provocation; and Ben’s own tricky relationship with social media (IG).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.328: Ben Davis, National Art Critic for Artnet News and author most recently of Art in the After-Culture 1:06:38
1:06:38
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Ben Davis , Artnet News's National Art Critic and author most recently of Art in the After-Culture , talks about: Cultural Appropriation in its many forms, including in the context of Dana Schutz’s controversial “Open Casket” painting; Conspiracy Theory culture, including how videos connecting Marina Abramovic with satanic cults are far, far more viewed than videos about Marina Abramovic herself or her work; the culture that Conspiracy narratives come from, how they persist (often through individuals’ alienation), and why they become so popular; the luxury of people who get to say ‘neener-neener-neener’ in judgement of those who buy into them (the socially superior judging the inferior); Rubem Robierb’s ice sculpture at a fancy club during Miami Basel, which spelled out Greta Thunberg’s “How Dare You” addressed to politicians, and what that said/says about Art and Ecotopia, i.e. art and climate change; his experiences with the groups ‘Extinction Rebellion’ and its splinter group, ‘Extinction Resilience,” and his continuing involvement with Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), among other causes.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.327: Val Zavala on the Extinction Circle, Death Cafes and the New 10 Commandments for Future Generations 55:39
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Val Zavala, former anchor/reporter for the long-running KCET (L.A. PBS station) series SoCal Connected and Life & Times talks about: The ‘Extinction Circle’ group that she was part of for a couple years, meeting once a month to discuss likely human extinction (before the pandemic led the group to slowly disband; meantime she continues to be an active member of her local ‘Death Café’); how approaching humanity’s future is akin to Elisabeth Kubler Ross’ five stages of grief; the oil industry’s campaign of disinformation and its effect on the climate crisis; a profoundly thoughtful Buddhist take on our (humankind’s) fate; relating extinction to former guest Fernando Dominguez Rubio’s study of the preservation of artworks in the museum, and what Val thinks of the lengths museums go to maintain artworks’ longevity; the concept of EA, or Effective Altruism, in relation to human longevity; “Seeding” the future, which is to say leaving a better foundation for future civilizations; and her “New 10 Commandments for Future Generations.”…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.326- NYC art appraiser David Shapiro: from valuing a work of art to shifting from his own art career 1:06:40
1:06:40
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New York-based art appraiser David Shapiro talks about: What he does as an appraiser, whether in-person inspections or putting together reports using photographs at the computer; his involvement with the Detroit Institute of Art’s collection appraisal, which was connected to the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the country; how appraisers value a work of art, from auction records to gallery sales (to the extent that can be verified) to the market as a whole, including trends; turning down offers to appraise works that have no apparent market value; his own career as an artist prior to becoming an appraiser, which included having success selling his work before he was even out of high school; how, when he returned to making art after grad school in art history he had less success, learning about “the fickleness and vicissitudes of the art world,” as he put it; and how he appraises emerging art, including within a market with a lot of movement in values, both up and down.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Immersive art installations: who visits them, why, and where they're headed...with Kate Sharkey, painter and a 'host' at ARTECHOUSE 1:06:04
1:06:04
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New Jersey-based painter and immersive art museum ‘host’ Kate Sharkey talks about: Transitioning from being a preparator (at MoMA) to getting a job as a ‘host’ at the immersive art museum ARTECHOUSE, where she also does AV/tech work w/the projectors; what her job as host entails, including interacting with and managing guests’ experiences (some who do something called ‘candyflipping')whether or not immersive art experiences are actually ‘art,’ and which immersive art shows have worked best at ARTECHOUSE, particularly a work by Julius Hosthuis; and we talk about whether immersive art exhibits qualify as ‘art’ or ‘entertainment,’ and what other forms of entertainment they’re competing with.…
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1 Epis.#324- Maria Brito, her path from emerging singer to corporate lawyer to art advisor; and how she scored a Banksy for a client 1:24:10
1:24:10
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Maria Brito , art advisor, entrepreneur and author of How Creativity Rules the World talks about: Giving up on her teenage ambitions to become a singer because of the restrictive culture she grew up in; how from there she wound up being a corporate lawyer as a financially stable option that she thought made the most sense; how she made her way into the world of art advising as a disrupter, seeing that there was a clear lack of passion among many of the advisors and consultants she was encountering; the reasons behind the popularity of figurative painting (of course it has to do with collectors); getting a hold of a Banksy painting for a new client; her approach to becoming an art advisor, including her ambition to demystify the art world; the success of her business coinciding with the democratization of the market via social media (i.e. Instagram); and why she focuses so much on prices and values in describing artists in her book, partly as a way to challenge the stereotype of the ‘starving artist’ that so many non-art people hold on to.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 323, Dave Kinsey: post-graffiti, post-illustration, post-skate art, and the BLK/MRKT gallery scene in the early-to-mid-2000s 1:07:35
1:07:35
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Vista, CA-based artist Dave Kinsey talks about: The gallery BLK/MRKT , that grew out of a design studio he co-ran, and launched as a gallery early in the 2000s in Culver City; his coming from a design and skate and graffiti background, and how he and his artist cohort were all generally making post-design, post-skate kind of work, and how they transitioned from street and/or skate and/or graffiti artists to more ‘fine’ art, working across genres; his love and appreciate of KAWS’s work, an artist whom he almost worked with, were it not for a disagreement with his partner; how he bought a property in Three Rivers (near Sequoia National Park), where a pipe broke which led to flooding and the ground turning into a ‘milkshake,’ and forced him, circuitously, into figuring out how to be a full-time artist; his commercial collaborations with big brands (Nike, etc.) and growing his own work in a more personal way; how and why he left advertising and design, and developing a financially sustainable art career; and how he has collected other artist’s work to support their careers as much as his being a fan.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Episode 322- Profound effects on the art market, ‘Rich-Kid’ art, and a painting of a polar bear 40:12
40:12
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In this OLD NEWS-oriented episode of the show, I talk about: Immersive art exhibits, which are booming, much to my chagrin; a follow-up on the art world’s ‘ponzi-like scheme' involving a new participant, “Rich-Kid art,” effects on the art market in both the UK and the U.S. through new laws and regulations, a union formed at Pasadena’s Art Center, reconciling NFT’s with their environmental footprint (and their financial decline), and a painting of a polar bear in the Royal Academy’s Open Call.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 321: Working as an artist's assistant, learning to pay attention, and dedication to the process- James Griffith, part 2 59:25
59:25
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In the 2nd part of our conversation, James and I talk about: working as an assistant for various artists, including making large-scale paintings for other artists, and wanting to be credited for his work, with a title such as “lead painter,” something that officially acknowledges his contributions; and meanwhile, how important the process of the making is to his own work; the things that keep James up at night, from the climate crisis to worldwide political bifurcation…basically, “human tragedy is running deep…;” further connecting collectors to his work through his artist talk at his recent show; a story he accidentally left out from his talk, that has to do with searching for enlightenment; buying a piece of land in the canyons of Malibu, which became an education in native plants and paying attention to the landscape (his wife is now a landscape designer emphasizing native plants); and how the person he’d like to emulate is not an artist but rather a zen master or the like, someone who lives as fully as possible.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 320: James Griffith, L.A.-based painter, on painting with tar, and re-building his home, studio, and outdoor amphitheater- part 1 of 2 1:03:19
1:03:19
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Altadena (in L.A. County)-based artist James Griffith talks about: Discovering the town of Altadena, where they first bought a house, and then a studio building, formerly Altadena’s fire house, back in 1999, and fixing them both up from tear-down conditions; being connected to nature while also being in the city, and not ever buying into owning a cell/mobile phone (although he does use an iPod, which he can text with); having renters in both the converted garage at their home, and in a section of their studio building, providing he and his wife with more freedom to make their art without needing ‘the monthly nut;’ working with tar as his primary medium, which he’s done for well over a decade and gotten a lot of mileage from one 5-gallon bucket of the stuff; and his and his wife’s decorative/faux finish painting business, which his wife launched in the 80s, and allowed them to buy their fixer upper house and studio building.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 319: Sarah Thibault, S.F.-based artist, on residency hopping, conversing with ghosts, and being the last artist in San Francisco (or so it seems) 1:24:27
1:24:27
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San Francisco-based artist Sarah Thibault talks about: How she’s the last artist in S.F., or at least so it seems; a ghost encounter she experienced in Edinburgh (Scotland), as well as her engaging in Tarot cards and other new-age spiritual pursuits, largely as a byproduct of the pandemic; her experiences going to a range of artist residencies, from remote ones with just a couple fellow residents in Portugal, to a more professionalized one at Plop in London; the Minnesota Street Project, a subsidized artist studio and gallery complex in SF where Sarah has a long-term lease at ‘below-market rate,’ and the barriers for entry there; her transition from working in executive assistant jobs to becoming a recruiter; and we talk about my concerns about Sarah’s giving me a tarot reading (and spoiler: we eventually do one in a bonus episode to come).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 318: Andrew Russeth- art writer formerly in New York, now living in Seoul, South Korea 1:07:50
1:07:50
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Freelance art writer (often for the New York Times) and past guest royalty Andrew Russeth talks about: Why he moved to Seoul, South Korea, where he’s expanded his freelance writing opportunities; a book on Chris Burden’s unrealized sculpture projects, which he wrote about for the New York Times- the book includes a one-stop pneumatic subway under the Gagosian gallery; artists using assistants, and the optics that go along with the various levels of production that certain artists employ, for us as viewers of their work; the art scene(s) and community in greater Seoul, which has a metropolitan population of 25 million, nearly half that of the whole country of South Korea; the vast artist-run gallery scene in Seoul; how some of the trends in Korean contemporary art overlap with international contemporary art, including airbrushed figuration, humor, and meme culture; and last but not least, Andrew holds forth on South Korea’s incredible food and drink culture (including Bibimbap and soju), which has been heaven for him.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 317: museums’ Invisible Labor, and how exhibition rooms are suspensions of common sense- Fernando Dominguez Rubio, part 3 48:57
48:57
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with Fernando Domínguez Rubio , author of Still Life: Ecologies of the Modern Imagination at the Art Museum , he talks about: Storage- how much it takes to maintain it; how museum curators put the longevity of artworks in the context of geological time, when thinking about ‘eternity,’ and how exhibition rooms in museums are effectively ICUs for the art- conditions must be monitored and controlled carefully, because humans, just by their organic natures, are an immediate threat to artworks’ longevity; how exhibition rooms in museums are highly mediated spaces by exhibition designers to control viewers’ experiences; the complex logistics and mimeographic labor that goes into the maintenance of artworks within the museum- where and whether they get loaned, get exhibited, etc.; Fernando’s own experience of violence when he first encountered contemporary art, because, as is the case for most individuals, he didn’t have the grammar for reading the exhibition room; how his working class background, and change in classes as an adult, has informed his focus on the invisible labor at the museum, as opposed to its ‘celebrities;’ and how exhibition spaces have been “conquered for a suspension of common sense.”…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 316: Why MoMA goes to great lengths to recreate what's dying or only existing in the past- Fernando Dominguez Rubio, part 2 45:01
45:01
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In part 2 with Fernando Domínguez Rubio , a professor of communications at UCSD and author of Still Life: Ecologies of the Modern Imagination at the Art Museum , he talks about: The astonishing resources that go into some museum artworks, starting with David Lamelas’s conceptual installation “Office,” which MoMA bought and decided to reproduce, but were reproducing an installation that no longer existed, and yet they did everything they could to be true to the original piece, based only off photographs; the ‘modern aesthetic regime of art,’ and how art that once rebelled against museums and museum inclusion – was anti-institution – is now embracing as many angles of commodification as it (via the artist) can; the savvy machinations of the artist Tino Seghal; and, as part of our discussion of art words and conservation-based artist interviews, we play out a MoMA interview with the artist James Rosenquist, which raises one of Rubio’s big questions: “what is a museum-- is it not a necessary absurdity?”…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 315: What goes on behind the scenes of a museum (specifically MoMA), and why it matters, with Fernando Dominguez Rubio, author of Still Life: Ecologies of the Modern Imagination at the Art… 56:12
56:12
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In the first of several parts with Fernando Domínguez Rubio , a professor of communications at UCSD and author of Still Life: Ecologies of the Modern Imagination at the Art Museum , he talks about: How he got started with the massive eight-year project of this book, beginning with his post-doctoral thesis interviewing numerous people who work at the Museum of Modern Art; how he gained entry into the museum (hint: via the Conservation dept.); the hidden labor that’s done at the museum, as part of something he calls “mimeographic labor,” a process to make objects of ‘the same;’ how most art in the world is in storage – it isn’t seen art – which is definitively the case for museums; how much invisible labor goes into what visitors see in a museum, and to what extent that labor, spread around various parts of the museum and its numerous artworks, is sustainable.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 314: Oligarch Shortage, SuperBlue Indictment, and the Cinema of Transgression: the Guest-Less Episode courtesy OLD NEWS 31:20
31:20
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In this guest-less episode, we ( that is to say 'I') talk about: a new OPEN CALL for future guests of this podcast; the opening reception and the show 'It's My House!,' a group show in Ojai that I'm in; and numerous recent excerpts from Jeff Weiss's OLD NEWS, including stories about the Sacklers' name being taken off institutions, the Waste Museum in Nigeria, the indictment of the (former) sales director for Superblue, and the recently passed auteur Nick Zedd, among other recent art news. It's all capped with a very short story about the Pearlfish, which can be seen here: https://tinyurl.com/yatcyrdq…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.313: Sam Francis- king of desire, 52:41
52:41
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In Part 2 with writer Gabrielle Selz , author of Light on Fire: The Art and Life of Sam Francis , we talk about Sam Francis as he: Settles into his compound at West Channel Road in Santa Monica, and became the big-man-on-campus of the young (1960s) L.A. art scene; his relative absence as a father, his kids being left to run wild or spend time with Sam’s assistants; Sam’s self-empowered and grandiose painting process which included his mantra, “I am an Original” as he began to paint; the profound impact that his fifth (and final) wife, Margaret, had on Sam’s life, because of the way she corralled Sam off from the large and freely flowing group of friends who came in and out of the house(s), as well as how she enabled Sam’s adherence to bogus alternative medicine when he was suffering from cancer; the Dream Machines of his studios in the works, including many compounds simultaneously in development in northern California towards the end of his life; the resolution of his complicated Estate, including a contested will by his last wife; and where one might find Sam Francis paintings these days.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.312: Writer Gabrielle Selz on Sam Francis, an abstract painter who broke all the rules 55:10
55:10
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about: the important first phase of Sam’s long art career, in Paris, where he started working on a big painting from his bed in a tiny hotel room he shared with his girlfriend Muriel; how he was a shrewd businessman and cocky self-promoter, a sort of Orson Welles of the art world; how his first patron, Franz Meyer Sr., told Sam he would buy anything he made, thus freeing Sam and bolstering his confidence and security; how Sam wasn’t tied to place (he was constantly traveling and living in different countries), nor to style; and how lucrative Sam’s career was, including having bank accounts (including Swiss) all over the world, and his philosophy that money flowed through you, and that you should spend it.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 311: Sydney Croskery, part 2 of 2- 51:10
51:10
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In part 2 of 2 with Los Angeles-based painter Sydney Croskery , she talks about: connecting with a gallerist -- who has come to represent her – on Instagram, synchronistically; the benefits and travails of her day job as a server, which can be very intense, and could make for a whole other episode; her “Failure CV,” which accompanies the traditional CV on her website, and how in addition to being self-deprecating, has also been empowering; and as a final grab bag topic, Sydney wonders why there are a number of artists who want their work to have no meaning whatsoever (if you know of an example of such work, please reach out and let me know; Sydney didn’t want to call anyone out).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.310: Sydney Croskery, Los Angeles artist 54:07
54:07
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In part 1 of 2 with Los Angeles-based painter Sydney Croskery , she talks about: transitioning from representation to abstraction during pandemic lockdown; transitional imagery which included using buffering Instagram screen shots as a source for her painting; making it OK when things are ‘wrong’ in the painting, part of a mandate of being nice to herself; her ambivalent relationship with abstract painting and being an abstract painter, and how she’s navigating that conflict; and her effectiveness telling stories and connecting with artists and other art world folks on Instagram.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.309: Running a gallery, creating community, 58:11
58:11
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In part 2 of 2 with multi-hyphenate and Artist Decoded host Yoshino , he talks about: Working through an art-like writing phase, in which he does a mix of automatic writing and poetry, as a counterpoint to his existential crises; NohWave , the gallery in Little Tokyo that he ran with fellow multi-hyphenate Justin Hopkins, and how he saw it as a way of giving back to the community by creating community, citing Sir Isaac Newton’s “I see further because I stand on the shoulder of giants…;” letting go of a competitive mindset as an artist, podcaster and even gallerist- his approach to running NohWave was experimental, thanks largely to a sweet deal given by their landlord; why he stopped doing commercial cinematography; and how for now he’s able to work on his art, his podcast and related projects thanks to a little cryptocurrency investment and a lower cost of living in Joshua Tree.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.308: Yoshino of Artist Decoded (the podcast), part 1 of 2 1:02:21
1:02:21
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In the 1st of two episodes, visual artist, writer, entrepreneur and host of the Artist Decoded podcast , Yoshino talks about: how he shortened his name to the iconic ‘Yoshino,’ thanks to an existential crisis involving leaving the commercial and fashion photography world for the fine art world; doing Brazilian Ju jitsu, Muay Thai, and boxing on a professional level; how he identifies himself, and what being an ‘artist’ means in his case, how as an artist you want to be fluid, which runs counter to capitalist realities; growing up Christian, and his current spiritual place (a spiritually open-minded individual who doesn't have any answers (!)); his move to Joshua Tree, partially due to the spiritual wokeness of LA, and his desire to process information outside of the noisy machinations of Los Angeles.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.307: a Spanish painter (Antonio Murado) goes to New York City- 58:21
58:21
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Antonio Murado, a New York City-based painter originally from Spain, talks about: His background in Spain, including several years in the Madrid art scene, before moving to NYC, which he began with a Spanish grant; the commissions that he’s done- how they function as competitions, and then if he gets one, a collaboration with the client, rather than the sort of top-down dynamic that came across in his depiction in Hannah Wohl’s ‘Bound by Creativity;’ the importance of the art agent in setting up a commission; how competing for a commission is like an actor casting for a role; how the sales of his work rise and fall, not only by year but by month, which means there’s no stability; and his time in the studio (around 65-70 hours/week)- how he spends his days there, and how he takes an old-school craftsman approach, from sizing canvas with rabbit-skin glue to building his own stretchers.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Episode 306: Collector disconnect, enjoying without owning, and 51:55
51:55
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In the final episode with Hannah Wohl (Bound by Creativity), we talk about: her experiences with mega-collector couple Sherry and Joel Mallin, who have an impressive collection and are known as being philanthropic in their approach to helping artists, including having some of them live in their homes; a purchase the Mallins made that entailed their flying from New York to London just so they could see the (six-figure) work they were considering in person before committing fully to the purchase, and how people’s reactions to this anecdote are something of a Rorschach test for where they’re coming from; the issues of inequality that being around collectors inevitably brings up; her brief history of being a (modest) art collector herself; and finally, in comparing contemporary art with the arts at large (the culinary arts, musicians, actors, etc.), she describes the ‘radical uncertainty’ that goes along with it, how the artists and the art world make decisions within this uncertainty, and the narratives that artists bound themselves within.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 The challenge of describing contemporary art (even for a writer): 57:05
57:05
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In my penultimate conversation with sociologist Hannah Wohl (author of Bound by Creativity) she talks about: the cynicism of sociologists, particularly when theorizing about art (and in relation to the sculptor St. Clair Cemin in particular); the emergence of the artist Ginny Casey , through her show at Half Gallery; how she describes her own contemporary art sensibility (like most of us: with difficulty), including her appreciation of Wong Ping’s show at the New Museum , and in turn demonstrates the challenges of talking, and writing about art, even for a sociologist who’s written a book about contemporary art; and she begins recounting her experience ‘playing’ a gallery assistant at an art fair (as an unpaid volunteer) for the purpose of her sociological research).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.304: Virtual Cafe w/special guest Rose Bricetti 1:17:33
1:17:33
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In The Conversation’s latest Virtual Café (which took place on 9/24/21, on Zoom), special guest Rose Bricetti and participants talked about: how memes break down institutional critique; the Instagram account Jerry Gogosian , which was revealed to be run by Hilde (former guest of the podcast); The Dirtbag Left, defined, as well as their use of memes; how the image and meaning of Pepe the frog has changed over time, depending on who appropriates it and how the media covers those appropriations; Rose’s art-making process, which has been influenced both by memes and her prior work as a museum designer at a natural history museum; her consumption of Tik Tok vs. her consumption of Instagram, and how the two compare content-wise; and how the leisurely and the political are so intertwined in memes that they’re inseparable.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.303: Status Signals, and risking a Lower Status 51:27
51:27
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In part 4 of my conversations with sociologist Hannah Wohl (author of Bound by Creativity), we discuss: Competing claims to expertise between artists and gallerists; the fiduciary responsibilities that some art advisors take on, which involves a very pointed analysis of artists’ pedigrees when choosing work for their clients; how art advisors and collectors operate in such a way that perpetuates systems of value based on status signals; how Hannah tries to strike a good balance as an ethnographer, in between being an objective, invisible researcher on one hand, vs. it being too much about the ethnographer’s ego on the other hand (and that balanced approach also applies to her take on the art world); and Antonio Murado, a painter who has produced highly-paid commissions for corporate banks, and in the process grappled with issues around selling out and compromising his work, or, in Hannah’s research terms, he was willing to trod on his creative vision and in the process potentially relegate his work to a lower status level, based on the perception of doing the commissions.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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In digging into Hannah’s book, ‘Bound by Creativity,’ we talk about: the continued existence of the artist as bohemian (even as ‘enfant terrible’), as personified by the pseudonymous Simon Moser, whose gallerist and collectors affectionately boast about how crazy he is, and yet who occasionally goes to far, even with his cultural clout; the collector-artist dynamic in studio visits, where a power imbalance is the norm, and collectors are often hesitant to buy work by an artist who they haven’t already invested in; collectors’ light-hearted competition with each other, not unlike a catty teenager style of play; trust-fund kids, and how artists often adopt bohemian lifestyles (or at least appearances) so as not to be seen as having or coming from wealth, whereas collectors coming from wealth tend not to hide that fact; and the uneasiness artists often feel in their direct relations with collectors. Here is a related discussion, about ‘the Anxieties of Affluence,’ with sociologist Rachel Sherman, from my other podcast How I Get By .…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 301- Bound by Creativity, pt 2 with Hannah Wohl 43:12
43:12
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In part 2 with sociologist Hannah Wohl , we continue our conversation by talking about whether the terms ‘Creative Vision,’ or ‘Signature Style,’ are euphemisms for ‘brand’; how there was resistance (from artists in the book and others) to the prospect of Hannah using a sociological model to analyze patterns of creativity, something that struck them as anathema to their unique visions and processes; the relative importance of the art world, in that it moves the conversation(s) forward, even as an admittedly collector-supported system; how cultural consumption tends to reinforce the status of the elites, rather than undercut it; and what the big difference is between trust-fund baby collectors and trust-fund artists (hint: one gets to be more transparent, the other has to hide their background).…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Episode 300- Hannah Wohl on her book Bound by Creativity: part 1 42:03
42:03
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In the first part of a multi-part series, Hannah Wohl , sociologist and author of Bound by Creativity talks about: her general studies of the creative industries more broadly, in addition to her focus, for this book, on the contemporary art market in particular; her two-year ethnography of a ‘sensual figure drawing’ class at an erotic arts club in Chicago; how she earned entry into some of the inner sanctums of the art world, starting with artists but then eventually through the support and generosity of one legendary gallerist; the process of artists developing a signature style for which they become known; and the challenges for artists with a recognizable ‘creative vision’ who try to transition into another style and/or medium, largely because collectors want to buy the work that represents a given artist’s creative vision.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 299- NYC artist and writer Melissa Stern: 59:41
59:41
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New York artist and writer Melissa Stern talks about: Living in a large Chelsea co-op apartment where also has her studio, in a building she calls ‘a community in a box’; her joining an all-women-artist text group during the pandemic, which has been a great source of support and community; her shows that got canceled because of the pandemic, one of which got re-scheduled, and disappeared by ghosting; going down a dark rabbit hole with a couple of bogus dealers – one of whom was a meth-head – and how that led to, among other things, a great experience among a wide assortment of New Yorkers at Small Claims Court (it also led to a great article on Hyperallergic ); her piece ‘The Talking Cure,’ which is a collaboration with 12 writers, 12 actors and 12 sculptors (and will be shown at the Fuller Museum in 2022), and has presented great opportunities to both interact and connect with audience members in parts of the country outside of her New York area bubble.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Best-Of episode with Ben Davis (ArtNet News and 1:52:59
1:52:59
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In addition to being a replay of episode 138, from May of 2021, art writer Ben Davis also provides an update on what he thinks about art and activism today, in conjunction with his new book, 'Culture Collapse.' In this episode, Ben talks about: His time in Australia at the (x) conference, and his meetings with artist Ben Quilty (also a social activist work); art and activism, and art & politics; the mutually incompatible art tribes that exist among the different 'art worlds;' how the fact that all the different complaints from various factions of the art world(s) can all be true at once, and how disorienting that can be (for Ben); how outside of the cities where there's a market, the conversation is almost always about social aesthetics (what Ben calls "social practice") instead, and how that's where government arts support tends to gravitate; how some of the most interesting art – art that's 'underground and weird' - is being made outside of the art world bubble, among them Fee Plumley, an artist based in Adelaide; sections from his book "9.5 Theses on Art and Class" -- the title and also a specific chapter of his book which was originally written as a pamphlet and intervention of an art show in NY on art and class – including trickle-down theories of both economics and art; and art education, and particularly what for Ben was a profoundly moving article: A Eulogy for Hope: The Silent Murder of Gallery 37 ; what explains the fact that grad schools are made up of 2/3 women, but galleries represent 1/3 women…what happened in between?; what the mechanisms are that make up the art world/how it works; his piece "Do you have to be rich to make it as an artist?"; how the conversation about the art market is a complete dead end; how cities with much smaller art markets, but much cheaper housing, are better for artists; and how without the writing, without the intellectual circulation around the production of art, art's just an overpriced piece of decoration.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis. 298: from cedar salvaging to becoming a landlord 58:20
58:20
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Brooklyn-based artist Doug Beube talks about: his internship with photographer Minor White; photographing the circus, and later freelance gigs to make a living and support his art-making, including verité photos of John Kennedy, Jr.; doing cedar logging salvage in British Columbia; his journey from Ontario to New York, and eventually getting his Green Card; why he stopped doing commercial photography; buying the brownstone he now lives in, rents out, and Airbnbs in 1998 as a form of retirement; and the art of pulling apart books and repurposing them into objects.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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Sharon Butler , NYC Artist and creator and publisher of Two Coats of Paint , talks about: Leaving a tenured teaching position in Connecticut so she could get back to the action in NYC; the origins of Two Coats of Paint, her illustrious blogazine, which was born out of her interest in painting and following painting-focused writers and bloggers around the country, and evolved from being an extension of her painting into a full-fledged digital magazine that involves multiple contributing writers; how she considers herself a lifelong DIY-er, and has made it a point to cover the galleries in Brooklyn, the types of spaces that don’t get coverage in the mainstream publications; the mini-art movement that Sharon wrote about and essentially coined, Casualism; and how much having a permanent studio (for her, a three-year lease was huge), versus being a studio nomad, affected the type paintings she made. This episode is supported by the podcast Wireframe . Please check out their podcast- we think you’ll enjoy it, plus subscribing to Wireframe is a way for you to support The Conversation!…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#296: Jennifer Moon, Los Angeles artist, would-be revolutionary, & professor 1:06:28
1:06:28
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Los Angeles artist Jennifer Moon talks about: getting sober after a long string of drug use benders; navigating ambitions for revolution with a traditional artist career path, including her inclusion in the 2014 version of Made in L.A., which led to sales and accolades; how her commercial success – and the connection of an artist she was working for – eventually led to the security of a professorship at Otis, where she attempts to lobby for changes in the power structures; how, before her career broke, she thought she might give up art and become a therapist (she had been doing a lot of mediation with several organizations already; and a bit about her work with Revolution School, including the theory of ‘Scrooging’ and tackling collective trauma.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#295: LA-based photographer Rakeem Cunningham 55:51
55:51
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Los Angeles-based artist Rakeem Cunningham talks about: growing up in essentially a small town (Pacoima) within Los Angeles, where he still lives and works out of a custom-built studio under his bedroom (though he’ll be moving out soon); his day job as the gallery manager for Gavlak in Downtown L.A., work which he really appreciates, and where he especially enjoys being a warm and welcoming host to black visitors to the gallery; how he started working in self-portraiture in lieu of hanging out with friends, and how it became a form of self-love as well as a way put his work out there via Flickr and Tumblr, before the Instagram era; and how he navigates photographing himself nude while avoiding fetishism and objectification.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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Law school professor, former general counsel for Pepsico, and novelist (most recently of The Forger’s Forgery ) Clay Small talks about: visiting Amsterdam’s notorious Six Collection, which he was only able to do through creative means (largely through this article ), and what the experience was like; art forgery, particularly European forgers of the 20th century- what they got away with, and how they largely avoided prosecution by cultivating charming personas, which ultimately led to their being forgiven in the public (and legal) arena; and his consequential and bizarre visit to Michael Jackson’s compound, in working on the contract negotiation for Jackson’s concert tour at the time.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#293: When the aim is the immaterial- artist Mitchell Chan 1:19:17
1:19:17
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Toronto-based conceptual artist Mitchell Chan talks about his epic “ Digital Zones of Immaterial Pictorial Sensibility ,” a blockchain-based work which was inspired by Yves Klein’s late 1950s precursor, “Zones of Immaterial Pictorial Sensibility;” we talk about Klein’s legendary work The Void, the apex of his ongoing project of making invisible, or nearly invisible, artworks, and how his revolutionary work may have been interpreted at the time; and we talk about the NFT (non-fungible token) market- how it’s helped his Digital Zones work, how a lot of great conceptual work has been made on blockchain, even if it’s not dominating the marketplace… and his philosophical take on the NFT trend from the perspective of an artist who’s been working in blockchain for at least the last five years.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#292: the chirp-less crickets of Kauai: 58:51
58:51
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Artist, choreographer and former ballet dancer Madeline Hollander talks about her brief but dramatic professional ballet career and her subsequent transition into becoming a visual artist via choreography and performance; her project Flatwing , a search for the elusive silent/chirp-less crickets on the island of Kauai, which led to a deep dive into evolutionary biology and a video that’s being exhibited as part of an installation at the Whitney Museum; the turning points that led to her being included in the Whitney Biennial and now to have this solo exhibition at the museum; the pros and cons of working in the still-nascent niche of dance/choreography in contemporary art; and how the decision to invest in the Masters program at Bard College has already paid off.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#291: How did he make that??! plus... 1:26:19
1:26:19
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Berlin-based artist Lee Wagstaff talks about his paintings and his recent career boost through his use of the Artist Support Pledge (#artistsupportpledge) platform-- how he learned of it, his strategies in using it, and how the smaller paintings he’s been making are an ideal format for it. The Support Pledge has also provided him with artistic/financial independence, without having to rely on networking (something he’s averse to), and how he’s turned it into a sustainable living; he also talks about how he makes his optical-yet-visceral paintings, which involve a proprietary process that even his painter friends can figure out.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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In the 2nd of two parts, artist Katarina Wong talks about: her collective +1 +1 , which fosters artist community serendipitously based on a non-competitive ethos, with sharing small works as an ice breaker; our shifting priorities since the pandemic, and our approach to FOMO and guilt when it comes to seeing, or not seeing, everything that’s out there; re-directing our focus on what we do throughout the day (including art making), so that instead of checking off boxes, we’re being intentional about our decisions, and not including the word “Should” as part of those decisions; working on her memoir about renovating an apartment she bought in Havana, which has brought her closer to relatives, while otherwise she struggles with feeling like an impostor for not fitting into any of her respective cultures, whether Cuban (her mom), Chinese (her dad’s Chinese), or even American, despite growing up in Florida.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#289: Can an artist get completely immersed in the making? Katarina Wong, part 1 of 2 51:04
51:04
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Host Michael Shaw speaks with Katerina Wong , a New York City-based artist, curator, and writer (among other things), about working her way up to VP of Curatorial Engagement, a position she invented for herself at the corporate communications company where she worked for over a decade; getting good at managing her (limited) time in the studio with a full-time job; the pluses and minuses of teaching, in particular tenure-track positions; going back to school for a masters in theological studies at Harvard, and how she wound up there; how we’re conditioned to make work for an audience, as opposed to having, as Katarina calls it, “pure dialogue” with just the work itself; and we begin talking about the art scene in Cuba, including its misconceptions, which will continue in greater depth in part 2.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#288: Being a Museum Director during the Trump era 1:02:10
1:02:10
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Curator, writer and museum director Laura Raicovich talks about the challenges she faced as director of the Queens Museum, particularly around actively addressing the vulnerability of many Queens residents during the Trump era, including meeting some resistance from some the museum’s board members. She also discusses issues around diversity and where museums need to be moving, topics she’s addressed in her upcoming book, “Culture Strike: Art and Museums in an Age of Protest.” We also discuss the controversy around the postponed Philip Guston retrospective, and the various projects she’s taking on as her run as a museum director winds down.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#287: Can art workers organize? 1:08:04
1:08:04
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Artist, writer and art world worker Robin Kasier-Schatzlein talks with Michael Shaw and several listeners in the podcast's latest Virtual Cafe. Robin talks about his 'mini-memoir' from The New Republic titled "The Artist Isn't Dead: Eulogies for the creative class are premature. Art workers can organize—and survive," partially a book review of Shannon Clark's "The Making of The American Creative Class: New York’s Culture Workers and Twentieth-century Consumer Capitalism," and partly an introduction to Robin. In the Conversation via the Cafe, which features several listeners in the Q&A, Robin expands on his own experience being an artist, a writer (he has a newsletter , a twitter feed, and a Patreon page all worth checking out), and working in the art world as a preparator, and organizing with his colleagues at MoMA PS1, where he's the shop steward.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Curator and NYU Professor Miriam Basilio Discusses Breaking the Museum Diversity Barrier 58:02
58:02
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Michael Shaw talks to Miriam Basilio about her job at MOMA curating Latin American Art, helping to integrate the curatorial landscape as a woman from Puerto Rico, low curatorial salaries, her current work at NYU as a tenured professor, her annual 6-week stints in Spain and the Spanish art community, her forthcoming book, and the importance of representation in the art world.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Matthew Burrows, MBE- English painter 1:17:08
1:17:08
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English artist Matthew Burrows - founder of Artist Support Pledge, number 37 in ART REVIEW’S Power 100 list 2020, and 2020 Members of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) - talks about building his studio in East Sussex, and why he left London; the perils of ultra-marathoning, including facing his fears (and getting hypothermia); his artist Support Pledge- how and why he started it, its successes, and how it has provided him with a full-time income thru the sales of his works; he also talks about how to set up your own Support Pledge, and who sells well on it and why.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#284: 'Best-of' episode with Carolina Miranda 1:13:23
1:13:23
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For the end-of-year holidays we're re-running our fantastic conversation with Carolina A. Miranda of the L.A. Times, which originally ran as episode 110 back in 2015. In addition to a new tighter edit of that original episode, we also share two 'Words of the Year of Little Importance," and read a brief, art-world-relevant passage from "My Year of Rest and Relaxation" by Ottessa Moshfegh. In that original conversation, we talked about: her philosophy and approach as an arts journalist; the issues around race brought up in her piece on the Donelle Woodford/Joe Scanlon Whitney Biennial scandal; her posts that went viral, including breaking the story that Hello Kitty is not a cat; as well as stories on a velvet painting museum, and a pool in the middle of the desert. Carolina also makes her world debut reading of "Jeff Koons Cut-Up Poem," culled from the many flowery-worded articles about his retrospective.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#283: Los Angeles-Based Artist Colleen Hargaden: 1:06:53
1:06:53
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Colleen Hargaden discusses her exploration of subcultures and how to live sustainably , and even potentially survive as our climate changes and we move closer to apocalypse. These subcultures involve doomsday prepping, DIY culture, and tiny house culture, which she says focus too much on self-sustainability when they need to be more about communal sustainability. She also discusses how she’s drawn to the open-ended aspects of making fine art, as opposed to something that’s practical. She also breaks down the former life of Roger’s Office , an artist-run space co-founded by her and her partner. As a special bonus addendum, the episode concludes with Hargaden’s experience with “100-person crits” during grad school.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#282: Nato Thompson's Indig-Nation 39:18
39:18
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In The Conversation’s first guest-featured Virtual Café – our once every few weeks gathering with fellow listeners on Zoom - former guest of the podcast (epis. 152 and 153) Nato Thompson talks about “the Indignation.” He riffs on how our emotional space, the space of the personal, becomes a political space... and how in that emotional space, the things that get the most traction are the things that provoke the most emotion. He points out that our biggest emotion- fear - is the modality of the internet, and how most internet chatter takes the form of social media- which has, ultimately, become our political discourse. He also talks his departure from the Philadelphia Contemporary (and nonprofits), and his new post directing the Alternative Art School , and ends with a great anecdote about his turning point towards becoming a curator.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#281: Steve Lambert (part II of II), on how Capitalism works - 1:01:20
1:01:20
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In Part 2 with artist Steve Lambert, he discusses his most well-known artwork, Capitalism Works For Me, wherein he prompts participants to decide between “true” and “false” on whether capitalism really works for them on a personal level. Lambert himself says “false”, it doesn’t work for him, despite being in a better position than others and lists reasons why within the episode. He also weighs his career making more gallery-friendly art with his art for social change, and how he’s ultimately come down on the latter. His social change work thru the Center Artistic Activism was just featured on CBS News: https://c4aa.org/2020/10/cbs-this-morning-on-unstoppable-voters…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#280: Steve Lambert, artist and co-founder of the Center for Artistic Activism 1:13:46
1:13:46
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Beacon, NY-based artist and professor Steve Lambert talks about the perils of working in ‘new media’ (as opposed to ‘old media’), particularly around scarcity and the market. He discusses the Center for Artistic Activism, the non-profit he co- founded, including a project in Macedonia that addressed the rampant corruption with a "Bribe Box," a clever workaround for illegal protesting in Barcelona, and training artist-activists in actually achieving ‘wins,’ unambivalently, and the complex relationships between art and activism and how they can come together.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#279: NYC-based Artist Michelle Vaughan 1:12:52
1:12:52
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Michelle Vaughan discusses her life as an artist in New York City, pre- and during the pandemic, including living and working out of her Chinatown apartment. She dives deep into her heavily research-based process as seen in projects including Generations, which examined inbreeding among the Habsurgs family of 16th and 17th century Europe. She also discusses at length her current show up in Bushwick, called A Movement of Women , which features a full gallery installation detailing the history of conservative women in America over the last 100 years, through a research nook and numerous portraits.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#278: Los Angeles-based sculptor Alicia Piller 49:40
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Los Angeles artist Alicia Piller talks about gradually moving westward, winding up at Cal Arts for her MFA after being charmed during her interview visit. Her time in grad school is described as being a close-knit community where she also was really able to push herself. She discusses her post-grad breakdown, being driven to create without choice, the lessons she learned from having a solo show with a shady gallerist, and selling a big sculpture to the Hammer Museum.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#277: New York-based art critic Seph Rodney 1:03:56
1:03:56
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Senior Editor for Hyperallergic and New York Times regular contributor Seph Rodney talks about his long journey to becoming a full-time art critic. As an undergrad he was an English Major, before moving on to an MFA that would deepen his storytelling abilities, and then to his PhD. The road has been long and tumultuous with financial struggle much of the way, getting by with the help of friends, family, and, on one occasion, a tech billionaire. Rodney talks about his current place in the art world, the principles that guide his pen and his mind, “threading the needle,” elitism in the art world, American culture’s White Supremacist foundation, and winning the 2020 Rabkin Art Journalism Prize. Rodney says that when it comes to writing, he “does not aspire to be unbiased but, rather, aspires to be upfront and honest about his biases.”…
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1 Epis.#276: Greg Allen on "Naked Stratification" 59:55
59:55
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Greg Allen expands on a thought from Part 1: “selling baubles of the anointed few to the billionaire class.” He proves this is true through what he calls the “naked stratification” of museum galas, the epitome of “art or art-like things done for a tiny audience that either bought their way in or control an institution.” Even with a global pandemic wreaking havoc throughout the United States, Galas are still taking place over Zoom with elaborate catering delivered to your door. Allen contemplates where to shift away from this, especially in light of upcoming museum closures. He also discusses moving from his adopted home of New York to D.C., his resistance to hyping up the “market darlings,” and his wish-list artists as a collector.…
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Host Michael Shaw reviews some of artist and cultural critic Greg Allen ’s tweet history, providing the opportunity to deconstruct some of his cultural criticisms, including a defense of Cady Noland; Allen also talks about his ability to speak Japanese, thanks to his Mormon mission, leaving the corporate world for film-making and the art world, and becoming something of an art world (and contemporary art) expert without an MFA, but instead by simply putting in the time.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#274: 'A Delightful Nightmare:' LARP-ing the 'Great Success Machine' 57:47
57:47
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Artists Till Witwer and Netta Sadovsky discuss the art of creating, facilitating and executing a live action role-playing game--by artists, for artists. This isn’t your standard ogre-in-the-woods, dressing up as a knight with a sword in the middle of nowhere kind of LARP-ing, but rather a fully immersive investigation of the career-building workshop format. With alternately paralyzing, cathartic, and surprising outcomes, Witwer and Sadovsky are interested in discovering what stands between artists and “ The Great Success Machine .”…
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1 Epis.#273: Los Angeles-Based Painter Forrest Kirk 1:01:49
1:01:49
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Forrest Kirk is a figurative painter based in Los Angeles; as this episode releases, he has a sold-out show at Parrasch Heijnen gallery . In the Conversation, Kirk doesn’t back away from describing the pressure the art world has placed on Black creators to make “Black Art.” He also talks about his living room-studio setup; discusses collecting -- both as a collector and an artist being collected; his experience in the art world as a black man and a painter; and he lets us in on part of how he's risen to success in the art world within just four years.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 New York-Based Ayana Evans Reveals Her Honest Experience 1:20:04
1:20:04
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Ayana Evans discusses her 7-year career as a fashion designer (between being a painter and a performance artist), her impressive endurance-based performances, being part of a community of performance artists who are all on the same playing field (unlike the hierarchical art worlds), her first experiment/performance, in which she walked around MoMA in her signature catsuit while a friend covertly filmed (mostly) white women taking pictures of her exploitatively, and her frustrations and struggles with justice for black artists and women of color at large.…
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1 Kate Mothes, nomadic curator behind the platform Young Space 1:17:38
1:17:38
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Nomadic curator Kate Mothes of Young Space talks about the pros and cons of curating shows in pop-up spaces; how as a curator she's always wanted to be part of an artist's community, the bottleneck of younger artists trying to get their work out into the world, and how she's built Young Space into a major virtual gallery platform - especially on Instagram - that many galleries pay attention to, and sometimes even borrow from.…
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The Conversation Art Podcast
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1 Epis.#270: NY-based “Truly Rebellious Artist” Joanne Greenbaum- 1:08:01
1:08:01
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Joanne Greenbaum talks about her time in Berlin, being one of the few young artists of her time to have a full-time day job, showing up for friend’s art shows but intentionally not having an extensive art world network beyond that, being able to live off of her work, the exhausting parts of being an adjunct professor, the hellscape that is being a mid-career female artist, and her steadfast belief that not everything has been done, especially within Abstraction.…
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